Author Topic: Which handheld should I buy?  (Read 4937 times)

vonfnas (OP)

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Which handheld should I buy?
« on: August 09, 2014, 12:50:32 pm »
Hey guys!

I own a PSP and I did own a Nvidia Shield (just recently sold it).

I love my PSP, but when I realised it has major problems running Super FX-games I was very put off.
I HATE the Android OS and anything based on Android, plus I had problems with the Nvidia Shields battery life (might have been mine specificly, and not the Shield in general).

Since then I have decided that I don't really want to emulate anything about PSOne, and I mainly want to focus on emulating SNES and Mega Drive/Genesis.

I saw videos of GCW Zero running Star Fox flawlessly, but got put off by the almost $200-price tag.

What handheld is the right one for me? Is GCW Zero the way to go or is GameGadget good enough to meet my requirements? Or have I missed some handheld all together to check out?

Please help me  ;)
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lemmywinks

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 02:25:45 pm »
A used Pandora? If you wait a while until the Pyra comes out they may drop in price.
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pcercuei

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 02:54:06 pm »
Well if the price of a GCW Zero is too high for him, don't tell him to look for a Pandora  ;D

The Zero isn't in the $200 price tag, you can find new ones for $155: http://geekswithwives.com/buy-gcw-zero/
And I think that's the best non-Android handheld you can find for that price.
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Surkow

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 04:30:23 pm »
Quote from: pcercuei on August 09, 2014, 02:54:06 pm
Well if the price of a GCW Zero is too high for him, don't tell him to look for a Pandora  ;D

The Zero isn't in the $200 price tag, you can find new ones for $155: http://geekswithwives.com/buy-gcw-zero/
And I think that's the best non-Android handheld you can find for that price.
That's even including shipping. So a pretty good deal.
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Pollux

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 05:35:31 pm »
For $150 and to play 16bit games I think there's some chinese smartphone like console somewhere for sale.
In my opinion GCW Zero is too much expensive to offer something similar to a Dingoo (3x Dingoo original price from DX...).
If you have a PSP why don't you play 16bit games with it?
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lemmywinks

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 06:25:18 pm »
Quote from: pcercuei on August 09, 2014, 02:54:06 pm
Well if the price of a GCW Zero is too high for him, don't tell him to look for a Pandora  ;D

A 2nd hand original Pandora goes for similar money and is worth it because it's a full mini Linux computer, whereas the Zero is very expensive for such a limited device. There is more software for it, more and better emulators and a more developed scene, not to mention far better support from the company if anything goes wrong.

A 600mhz Pandora sold in my country for ?135 last month, a GCW Zero will cost me 150 euros. Probably different in other countries but given the choice I know what I would go for.
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Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, Pap KIII-Plus, RS-97, RS-90, New Bittboy, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket, PSP Go,
PC:
HP Envy M6, Acer 522, Dell Mini 9
Psion 5 & 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

vonfnas (OP)

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 06:31:56 pm »
Quote from: Pollux on August 09, 2014, 05:35:31 pm
If you have a PSP why don't you play 16bit games with it?

There not too much scene-support for the PSP anymore, and even if I over clock to 333mzh, games like Star Fox lag too much.

Pandora might be something for me.
Which version is worth picking up?

(I think that the price tag on GCW is too steep for what it actually is able too do).
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Surkow

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 07:00:13 pm »
Quote from: Pollux on August 09, 2014, 05:35:31 pm
For $150 and to play 16bit games I think there's some chinese smartphone like console somewhere for sale.
In my opinion GCW Zero is too much expensive to offer something similar to a Dingoo (3x Dingoo original price from DX...).
If you have a PSP why don't you play 16bit games with it?
But then again, there is a reason for low prices. The customers are the QA/QC.

People tend to forget that the GCW Zero is a niche product. It is bound to be costly to produce small numbers of hardware. Most of the price isn't even related to the SoC (since you seem to focus so much on hardware capabilities).

Another bizarre thing is that people seem to think that the GCW Zero isn't able to run some systems simply because nobody has made a public effort yet to port emulators and the like. The scene hasn't even scratched the surface of what software can be released for the device.
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lemmywinks

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 07:36:18 pm »
Quote from: Surkow on August 09, 2014, 07:00:13 pm
Another bizarre thing is that people seem to think that the GCW Zero isn't able to run some systems simply because nobody has made a public effort yet to port emulators and the like. The scene hasn't even scratched the surface of what software can be released for the device.

Why is it bizarre? People want real world capabilities, not imaginary ones.

It isn't able to emulate certain systems, that is a fact - because there is no emulator for them. Who knows where the scene will go, is the console still actually being produced? Will someone release a Saturn emulator next month? Will it all be over in a year or so? Will all the big emu guys suddenly decide to ditch everything to port to the Zero?

You probably know better than me, is anybody actually working on newer systems or at least showing an interest?

Maybe in a parallel universe people are sat playing Shenmue on a Zero, all we know is that you can't do it in this one so maybe that's something to take into account.
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Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, Pap KIII-Plus, RS-97, RS-90, New Bittboy, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket, PSP Go,
PC:
HP Envy M6, Acer 522, Dell Mini 9
Psion 5 & 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

lemmywinks

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 07:40:46 pm »
Quote from: Surkow on August 09, 2014, 07:00:13 pm
But then again, there is a reason for low prices. The customers are the QA/QC.

Did you just wake up from a coma? Zero has had some shonky QC, mainly because it's a cheap Chinese handheld made to relatively low standards, just like all the others.
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Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, Pap KIII-Plus, RS-97, RS-90, New Bittboy, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket, PSP Go,
PC:
HP Envy M6, Acer 522, Dell Mini 9
Psion 5 & 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

Surkow

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 08:48:07 pm »
Quote from: lemmywinks on August 09, 2014, 07:40:46 pm
Quote from: Surkow on August 09, 2014, 07:00:13 pm
But then again, there is a reason for low prices. The customers are the QA/QC.

Did you just wake up from a coma? Zero has had some shonky QC, mainly because it's a cheap Chinese handheld made to relatively low standards, just like all the others.
You have literally no clue what is going on in this project. The production price has actually increased due to extra quality assurance. It's really entertaining seeing people try to pass off statements like these as facts.
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lemmywinks

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 09:06:59 pm »
The price was still very high for the spec from the beginning, you can get consoles for much less with much better spec, more features and much better quality control. Things are supposed to get cheaper 2 years later, not stay the same or increase in cost, interestingly I read (not sure if it was on here) that Justin expected the final selling price to be around $80-$90 which is more realistic.

Besides, if you look at resellers like PurewickedAU who had their costs ramped up considerably due to bad project management you can't really try and pull the whole "investing in QC" thing off. It doesn't take a genius to realise why the console is so expensive, you're paying for someone not doing their sums properly and being very naive from a business perspective.

If the Zero is a good fit for someone and they don't mind the cost then that's great, however there is no point in trying to pretend that it is better than what else is out there because it just isn't. It's a cheap Chinese console that is being sold at far more than it should be.
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Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, Pap KIII-Plus, RS-97, RS-90, New Bittboy, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket, PSP Go,
PC:
HP Envy M6, Acer 522, Dell Mini 9
Psion 5 & 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

dreamesper

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 10:22:28 pm »
I have a Dingoo A320 for sale if anyone is interested. It's in fantastic condition... just wanted to sell it because I am getting a GCW Zero soon.

I would also recommend the Zero, even though I don't have it yet... getting it Tuesday, but for the money, I agree, it's pricey but it's the best there is. I am curious if it really does run all these great emulators at 60fps.

Again, I have to wait until Tuesday but I will let you know how it goes.

Contact me if interested in the Dingoo, I have it for a low price.


see ya!
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skelton

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 12:34:10 pm »
Quote from: Surkow on August 09, 2014, 07:00:13 pm
Quote from: Pollux on August 09, 2014, 05:35:31 pm
For $150 and to play 16bit games I think there's some chinese smartphone like console somewhere for sale.
In my opinion GCW Zero is too much expensive to offer something similar to a Dingoo (3x Dingoo original price from DX...).
If you have a PSP why don't you play 16bit games with it?

Another bizarre thing is that people seem to think that the GCW Zero isn't able to run some systems simply because nobody has made a public effort yet to port emulators and the like. The scene hasn't even scratched the surface of what software can be released for the device.

Ummm, GCW Zero is not able to manage accurate emulation in certain systems like SNES or GBA. We have to use PocketSNES and REGBA which is essentially a GPsp fork with optimizations. They are fast emus, but not accurate enough for some people. Maybe one day we have an accurate SNES emu using snes9x 1.53 or Visual Boy advance for GBA, but I have serious doubts the GCW Zero can handle it. We'll see.....

For me GCW Zero is fine as it is (except the awful dpad for fighting games), but I don't expect too much else in emulation.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 12:37:34 pm by skelton »
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Surkow

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 12:56:54 pm »
Quote from: skelton on August 13, 2014, 12:34:10 pm
[...]
Ummm, GCW Zero is not able to manage accurate emulation in certain systems like SNES or GBA. We have to use PocketSNES and REGBA which is essentially a GPsp fork with optimizations. They are fast emus, but not accurate enough for some people. Maybe one day we have an accurate SNES emu using snes9x 1.53 or Visual Boy advance for GBA, but I have serious doubts the GCW Zero can handle it. We'll see.....

I am very much aware of the history of these emulators. Nebuleon can tell you some more about the current performance of snes9x 1.53. VBA-M does run, but it is not exactly something to write home about. Most emulators are single threaded and completely dependent on the CPU. However, there are some nice new features coming that might allow for offloading (like bilinear or bicubic scaling via the IPU), or running something via the second 500mhz mips core (VPU). Most programs don't even use the GPU.
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skelton

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2014, 01:00:55 pm »
I know that, maybe in the future some of the new features improve emulation, but since emus depend mostly in CPU, I have serious doubts that the Ingenic CPU gcw zero has is powerful enough. Just my thought but I hope I am wrong...
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Nebuleon

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Re: Which handheld should I buy?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2014, 11:03:12 pm »
I agree that ReGBA (from gpSP) is not that great, but that's because Exophase has not had the opportunity and drive to finish up some things that are needed for full compatibility (and the shortcuts it takes for performance during emulation may hinder that compatibility). It's no VBA-M, that's for sure. It's a fully custom core.

As for PocketSNES, it's issued from Snes9x 1.43-dev, not a custom core, with optimisations and fixes on top for things like audio sync, pseudo-hi-res (Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, Rudora no Hihou menu text etc.), imports of code for SNES special chip support, and so on.

Star Fox runs at 40 FPS in-game on this version of PocketSNES on the GCW Zero. Kirby games run close to full-speed. Mario RPG and Yoshi's Island are very location-dependent in-game, but vary from 40 to 60 FPS. Some esoteric games will be supported in 1.53 but not 1.43, but I expect that number to be pretty small.

Using Snes9x 1.53 or Snes9x Git on the GCW Zero yields 50-60 FPS in Super Mario World, which is a very simple game to emulate, and Yoshi's Island runs at 12 FPS. Please see /GCW Zero/Development/Snes9x 1.53 and Git: slow, as I expected for more on that.
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