Author Topic: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter  (Read 22654 times)

maarten12100

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2016, 03:03:19 am »
Is there any benchmark of this AMD SoC? Wondering if it can handle Dolphin and PS2 emulation but I doubt.
It's Temash/Kabini so I can say for sure that PS2 emulation will only run for a few titles. And Dolphin will only run a few GC titles in DX12 mode (though I'm not sure GCN 1.0 gpu even supports it)

The should honestly change the SoC hell they could use Carrizo if they wanted to go AMD so badly. Using Kabini is just being cheap this is a SoC that is from 2012-2013 time frame. Why not use Beema instead...?

I fear this is too early they should've waited for a Zen SoC or gone with a Intel SoC perhaps.

Those are 6-15W chips.  So at best, they're going to eat through batteries 3x faster than a cherry trail SoC.  They would have to be insane to stick such a power-hungry chip in a handheld device.
Actually AMD (actually prototypes are outsourced) made prototypes with similar chips in tablets. Cherry trail is far more efficient however since this piece of 2012 tech is just that. (flippin old)

This SoC is the successor to Bobcat based designs it is going to be pretty awful by today's standards. And yes they have the same jaguar cores as the PS4 and Xbone. (do you think that is a good thing?!)

The lack of efficiency and performance is going to be made up by other things such as good input drivers, controls, screen, battery (just a big one) and ergonomics. I think they won't succeed if they start out with parts that are so bad.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 03:18:32 am by maarten12100 »

NTMBK

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2016, 08:34:16 am »
The Falcon SoC is not a Kabini derivative. It has 2 AMD Excavator cores (derived from Bulldozer), DDR4, and 128-256 GPU cores. More details at http://www.anandtech.com/show/10083/amd-expands-g-series-embedded-socs-with-excavator-microarchitecture They probably will use the 128 shader part with single channel memory, to fit it into a handheld.

Could be an interesting part- better single thread performance than Atom, though worse multithread performance. Kind of like an x86 version of the Tegra K1.

maarten12100

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2016, 03:07:40 pm »
The Falcon SoC is not a Kabini derivative. It has 2 AMD Excavator cores (derived from Bulldozer), DDR4, and 128-256 GPU cores. More details at http://www.anandtech.com/show/10083/amd-expands-g-series-embedded-socs-with-excavator-microarchitecture They probably will use the 128 shader part with single channel memory, to fit it into a handheld.

Could be an interesting part- better single thread performance than Atom, though worse multithread performance. Kind of like an x86 version of the Tegra K1.
It says Steppe eagle and Jaguar cores on their Kickstarter page. How great would kaby lake core M (or the 4,5W i5 and i7) be in this device!
Nothing on their site about it being anything than Steppe Eagle as far as I can see.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 03:13:46 pm by maarten12100 »

NTMBK

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2016, 03:15:40 pm »
The Falcon SoC is not a Kabini derivative. It has 2 AMD Excavator cores (derived from Bulldozer), DDR4, and 128-256 GPU cores. More details at http://www.anandtech.com/show/10083/amd-expands-g-series-embedded-socs-with-excavator-microarchitecture They probably will use the 128 shader part with single channel memory, to fit it into a handheld.

Could be an interesting part- better single thread performance than Atom, though worse multithread performance. Kind of like an x86 version of the Tegra K1.
It says Steppe eagle and Jaguar cores on their Kickstarter page. How great would kaby lake core M (or the 4,5W i5 and i7) be in this device!

That was the old prototype. Remember how during the original campaign they alluded to a "future AMD SoC" they weren't allowed to talk about? This is it.

A Kabylake/Skylake chip could be cool- I would like to see a part with a single Skylake core, to give more headroom for the GPU. I suspect costs would be too high though.

maarten12100

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2016, 04:39:23 pm »
That was the old prototype. Remember how during the original campaign they alluded to a "future AMD SoC" they weren't allowed to talk about? This is it.

A Kabylake/Skylake chip could be cool- I would like to see a part with a single Skylake core, to give more headroom for the GPU. I suspect costs would be too high though.
I sure hope some Excavator part or even a Zen part makes it into the final device.
I think a big core Intel solution is possible if they can move a big volume of them. The Intel core M compute sticks for example start at 250-300 euros and laptops with core M start at 600 euros.
A 400-500 euro portable on high volume doesn't sound impossible since things like a 720P/1080P 5 inch screen are not expensive nor is a 4G modem, battery and injection molded case.

But it's just a dream of mine. A single Skylake core that can boost very high as you suggested may be very good for emulation though it may give some problems with games. Apparently some games no longer run on dual core chips already. (those are too heavy to play on these mobile chips usually so it doesn't matter that much)

ker

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2016, 08:37:07 pm »
First prototype!!!

Enviado desde mi A0001 mediante Tapatalk


AVahne

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2016, 12:44:15 am »
They look self contained, but the crucial, most important thing is what's inside. Is it another frankentype, or do they have a real prototype with their own self-designed PCB and the parts they've ordered?

ker

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2016, 09:30:30 am »
They look self contained, but the crucial, most important thing is what's inside. Is it another frankentype, or do they have a real prototype with their own self-designed PCB and the parts they've ordered?

I don't know. This is the official message:

Hi Smachers,

Two prototypes of the SMACH Z are all ready to come with us to Gamescom next week.

Come visit us in Hall 10.1, booth A-043 where you can sign up to get a FREE carrying case when you preorder a SMACH Z from our Kickstarter.

Visitors can also participate in a contest to win a SMACH Z! You just need to share a photo or video at our stand:

On Twitter: Use the hashtag #smachzgamescomOn Facebook: Post it to our wall and share it.

Each day during the Gamescom we will give away a FREE SMACH Z. They will only be delivered if the Kickstarter campaign is successful and when the final units are ready.

Press and media interested in meeting our team, you can contact us at [email protected]

We?re still deciding the screen size for the final version. Remember that you can vote for your prefered size Here

Thanks for your support!
SMACH Team



Enviado desde mi A0001 mediante Tapatalk


NTMBK

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2016, 10:57:17 am »
I don't understand German, but this video of the "prototype" doesn't look good... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ehGxSyEqWs The device is struggling to run Fez, a simple indie game, and even struggles to animate the Steam UI properly!  :o Maybe the final device will fix the performance, but based on this I am staying well away from the Kickstarter. I'm not giving them any money until they prove that they can make an adequate device.

Accompanying article is here: https://curved.de/reviews/smach-z-im-hands-on-der-gameboy-fuer-steam-spiele-mit-video-403227

AVahne

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2016, 04:20:18 pm »
Well, at least that could mean that they have a real prototype PCB that they're still working on optimizing, so there's that. Wish they would have a separate unit that could be taken apart to show the internals to prove is not another device shoved and/or to prove that games are really running on hardware and not being streamed.
Anyway, still wish they would make a Shield-style clamshell design to protect the screen and analog sticks and to fit a fan in and bigger batteries for proper cooling and power.

Pardue

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2016, 10:10:40 pm »
I understand a little bit of German and she points out the obvious- the handheld is massive and the frame rate is terrible. From looking at the pics above I didn't expect this thing to be the size of the Game Gear but holy shit, it is.

I agree it wouldn't have been a bad idea to find a way to protect the controls because they don't look like they've withstood abuse well at the show, especially the analog stick. But that would mean making a massive device even bigger. Ugh.

vcoleiro1

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2016, 12:43:14 am »
To be fair, they did say before Gamescom that the prototype would be bigger than the final unit.  I think it even said that in the article.

So the final unit should be smaller.

leafar

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2016, 04:01:14 am »
looks cool i want a bigger screen, Vic yes they said the prototype the screen is bigger than the final .
lest see later what trully is this device.

AVahne

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2016, 05:32:46 am »
I do recall them saying the final unit would be smaller as well. Still, it wwould be freakishly long and too bulky for most bags I think. Plus the screen and stick would be exposed so a super long hard case would be required for travel, making it even bulkier.
So yeah, I do think a Shield style design would help a lot. The Shield was really bulky for a handheld, but I still felt it was a technical marvel considering they were able to fit a console style controller, a powerful (for the time) chipset, a huge capacity battery array, AND a fan for cooling the SoC. I'm sure they could both a fan and all their stuff in a clamshell design and even if it's still bulky, it would fix that damned length issue. Also I just think it would be way more comfortable since your arms wouldn't be so spread apart.
So even if they were successful in putting out a real product, I won't have any interest until they go clamshell.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 05:35:25 am by AVahne »

vcoleiro1

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2016, 06:25:01 am »
For me, if it's not pocketable , then I don't see why they don't go with a S192 type design with a bigger screen, comfortable grips and controls.  Makes  no sense to make a small screen non pocketable IMO.  Maybe it's just me.


NTMBK

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2016, 09:22:40 am »
To be fair, they did say before Gamescom that the prototype would be bigger than the final unit.  I think it even said that in the article.

So the final unit should be smaller.

If they can't get reasonable performance in a device this size, I'm not optimistic about them cramming enough cooling into a smaller shell.

vcoleiro1

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2016, 09:39:47 am »
So  the Smach Z Kickstarter will begin in September. Will have to watch that one
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 09:42:01 am by vcoleiro1 »

golgolt

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2016, 03:56:33 pm »
the kickstarter price for the 8GB and windows 499 euros urg!!! i'll wait for some videos showing the FPS and performance of the device...

PS: sorry for my english!

golgolt

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2016, 04:42:15 pm »
i found this on their facebook about the FPS drop on FEZ: "During this video recording we had technical problems with the prototype, that's why framerate was completely broken. But as we said in our previous commentary, this is not using the final hardware so it's not useful at all as performance reference. The final SoC it's way more powerful than PS Vita, and more powerful than Xbox360 and PS3."

leafar

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Re: SMACH Z (first steam handheld machine) is on Kickstarter
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2016, 04:53:48 pm »
Everybody has different taste,they can always make two version or more, or run a poll, i dont undesrtand why not, they still have the old style of the steamboy device ,no anymore,so change if you could, no steam support,so they are going to windows machine the right choice. i did buy one time the steam controller is pretty good,but no standar yet,you have to get us to it,for small screen device is ok, for the use of the mouse in the controller to navigate,no finger touch,thats my main concern in small devices,those two pad make the device huge like the sream controller,looks huge or feel.
Thinking,why no use instead of those pad a trackball or one, maybe the right pad as trackball,make the device smaller and can be clickable.
they need to look for design like PGS or PYRA or GPD and the new Morphus X300fron aikun about simplicity and innovation,only the way to know is just ask,and right here is the way to start.
i am hoping for them good luck Smachers