Author Topic: Best emulators for S7800B? (Read 10749 times)

Bargaintuan · « **on:** December 02, 2013, 03:08:30 pm »

I am becoming more and more disenchanted with RetroArch. I'm used to MAME on the PC, which lets you set keys for various games buttons (either defaults or per-game settings), lets you use cheats, and gives you access to DIP switches and settings. Oh, and you get READABLE NAMES of the various games you have, not just eight-character filenames.

I just tried the VBA Next included in RetroArch, and that was the last straw. It doesn't run the games I've written well at all, and I've seen them running on a S7300 (presumably with a different emulator) just fine.

I've decided that it's best to simply find the individual emulators I want than rely on RetroArch.

Now I'm looking for a MAME that will run well ('80s and early '90s games, primarily) and give me some flexibility to, say, set up Pac Man in cocktail mode with the two joysticks used for the two players -- preferably without using Tincore.

So, this thread is for people to share their experience with various emulators on the S7800B, to help people such as myself who are looking for the best emulators to run what they want to play the way they want to play (within reason). Please post what kinds of games you're playing as well as what emulators you're using, so that people can find the emulators that will work for them.

Also, if you're running a multi-system emulator such as MAME, be sure to give the version number.

Also also, please don't turn this into a ROMz thread. The purpose is to help people to judge what emulators might fit their needs. Once they get the emulators, the rest is up to them.

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm »

Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 02, 2013, 03:08:30 pm

I just tried the VBA Next included in RetroArch, and that was the last straw. It doesn't run the games I've written well at all, and I've seen them running on a S7300 (presumably with a different emulator) just fine.

All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

acid · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2013, 05:49:49 pm »

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm

Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 02, 2013, 03:08:30 pm
I just tried the VBA Next included in RetroArch, and that was the last straw. It doesn't run the games I've written well at all, and I've seen them running on a S7300 (presumably with a different emulator) just fine.

All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

FWIW I use RetroArch on an s7800b on a semi-daily basis and have tested the MAME, PCSX ReArmed, Picodrive, FBA and SNES9X Next cores. They all work really well on it. Thanks Squarepusher, Notaz and all the other contributors. Your efforts are highly appreciated. Is there a new version after 0.9.9.6? Now that it's not on the play store anymore I never know where to check for software updates.

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2013, 06:39:16 pm »

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm

All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

Well, it's my own ROM of my own game, so I seriously doubt it's bad.

The hardware is a JXD S7800B. It's not quite up to the Shield or Galaxy S4, but I wouldn't consider it "weak". I've also had problems with MAME games such as Empire Strikes Back, where I can't seem to insert credits or start a game at all. The biggest problem with RetroArch MAME for me is that I'm used to being able to use cheats, set DIP switches and other game options, and set the controls the way I want. I think I simply need an implementation with more options, which is nothing against RetroArch. It's just a personal preference.

I just tried VBA Next again after setting my CPU to "Performance" with AnTuTu CPU Master. It seemed slightly better, but still started to choke a bit when things got more intense (in the game's attract mode). Granted, my games tend to do weird (CPU intensive) things with the hardware, but they work 100% on hardware. On VBA Next, the GBC sound channels don't sound quite right, but that may be because of the S7800's speakers. I haven't tried VBA Next on anything else, so I can't say. I just know what it sounds like on hardware and PC emulators.

If you want, I can PM you a link to the ROM.

P.S. This thread isn't a knock on RetroArch. It's simply to explore the alternatives. RetroArch is good, but it is not the only thing out there, nor is it best thing for everyone. People want different things out of emulators and no one emulator is going to please everybody. I want my two-player cocktail mode Pac man, dammit!

ClausG76 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2013, 06:46:09 pm »

You can try afba. It's available for free on the xda forums. It runs fine on my devices. It uses mame roms and dip settings is available two.

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:10:25 pm »

Quote from: acid on December 02, 2013, 05:49:49 pm

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm
Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 02, 2013, 03:08:30 pm
I just tried the VBA Next included in RetroArch, and that was the last straw. It doesn't run the games I've written well at all, and I've seen them running on a S7300 (presumably with a different emulator) just fine.

All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

FWIW I use RetroArch on an s7800b on a semi-daily basis and have tested the MAME, PCSX ReArmed, Picodrive, FBA and SNES9X Next cores. They all work really well on it. Thanks Squarepusher, Notaz and all the other contributors. Your efforts are highly appreciated. Is there a new version after 0.9.9.6? Now that it's not on the play store anymore I never know where to check for software updates.

A new version is coming soon and it will be re-published on the Play Store. I can't guarantee that somebody of ill will is not going to try and pull it again - Google seems to honor any shit 'takedown' request that gets passed their way without even consulting the authors whether or not their allegations have any merit to it. In our case, it seems likely that it wasn't a DMCA takedown at all - but just some GPL zealot that did not want RetroArch shipping with non-commercial cores.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend using the last official version - it will be hopelessly out of date and it lacks the audio latency options that are crucial for getting good performance on various devices.

There is a thread on our forums where lordashram is posting 0-day builds. You could try that.

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:12:03 pm »

Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 02, 2013, 06:39:16 pm

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm
All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

Well, it's my own ROM of my own game, so I seriously doubt it's bad. The hardware is a JXD S7800B. It's not quite up to the Shield or Galaxy S4, but I wouldn't consider it "weak". I've also had problems with MAME games such as Empire Strikes Back, where I can't seem to insert credits or start a game at all. The biggest problem with RetroArch MAME for me is that I'm used to being able to use cheats, set DIP switches and other game options, and set the controls the way I want. I think I simply need an implementation with more options, which is nothing against RetroArch. It's just a personal preference.

I just tried VBA Next again after setting my CPU to "Performance" with AnTuTu CPU Master. It seemed slightly better, but still started to choke a bit when things got more intense (in the game's attract mode). Granted, my games tend to do weird (CPU intensive) things with the hardware, but they work 100% on hardware. On VBA Next, the GBC sound channels don't sound quite right, but that may be because of the S7800's speakers. I haven't tried VBA Next on anything else, so I can't say. I just know what it sounds like on hardware and PC emulators.

You could try the VBA-M core in RetroArch Android (you will need a 0-day version of RA Android though - it wasn't in the last official release). But really, the VBA-M core if anything will be even slower than VBA Next.

I dunno about the S7800B. I can only test RetroArch on devices that I own, and make sure they run well on those out of the box. I also have a Nexus 7 2013 here - guess I could try if VBA Next runs fullspeed with all games on that as well.

But yes, this problem you're having is device-specific and ROM-related - most of the time it involves getting the best ROM out there (AOSP in my Galaxy S4's case -the TouchWiz ROM just sucked), setting the right performance governor (there are tools that allow you to set performance governors) and setting the right audio/video settings in RetroArch (audio latency, threaded video/no threaded video, etc.)

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:18:46 pm »

Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 02, 2013, 06:39:16 pm

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 02, 2013, 05:25:28 pm
All games with VBA Next run at fullspeed on:

- an Nvidia Shield (running Android 4.3 - latest Nvidia updates)
- a Samsung Galaxy S4 (with Google Play Edition Android 4.3 ROM)

These are the devices I can actually test.

If it doesn't on your device, then either the hardware is weak, the refresh rate is lacking, and/or the ROM is bad.

VBA Next is based on VBA-M so system requirements are far higher than something based on a weaker, less accurate emulator, such as gpSP. That and syncing requirements are far higher with RetroArch since we care about being able to handle video and audio in realtime without audio pops/video jitter and without doing a 'hack' like audio buffering.

Well, it's my own ROM of my own game, so I seriously doubt it's bad.

I meant your Android system ROM BTW, not your game ROM that you play on an emu.

There can be night and day differences in terms of performance between ROMs. The TouchWiz ROM (Android 4.2.2) ran RetroArch horribly for instance on my Galaxy S4. As soon as I put the Google Play Edition ROM on it (Android 4.3), performance was rock-solid.

It's still a big mess out there in Android land and most of the time your performance problems are related to Android and the ROM you are running and not really the software. Unlike other emus we don't do audio buffering, frameskipping or any other forms of 'cheating' - what you see is what you get out of your device, so it is imperative that your device actually has a ROM that is running well (ie. Google AOSP).

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:28:10 pm »

Barg, try https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.seleuco.mame4all&hl=en
I can't get MK2 and 3 to run it just exits to launcher.. mk1 runs though.

You can get that familiar mame menu in game by hitting start+select

Uses a older .37 romset however.

there is a newer version that supports .139 but it does'nt run very good from what i seen.

I did'nt like the UI on retroarch, The PS1 emulation seemed really good though so that's a shame.
Would like to see a standalone version of that emu on android.

Im only keeping retro around for testing various things.. to much of a pita to use.

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:34:16 pm »

Quote from: Joe Sixpack on December 02, 2013, 07:28:10 pm

Barg, try https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.seleuco.mame4all&hl=en
I can't get MK2 and 3 to run it just exits to launcher.. mk1 runs though.

You can get that familiar mame menu in game by hitting start+select

Uses a older .37 romset however.

there is a newer version that supports .139 but it does'nt run very good from what i seen.

I did'nt like the UI on retroarch, The PS1 emulation seemed really good though so that's a shame.
Would like to see a standalone version of that emu on android.

Im only keeping retro around for testing various things.. to much of a pita to use.

It would be more helpful if you would actually explain what you don't like about the UI. Just saying 'PITA' and 'didn't like it' isn't going to get it fixed since nobody knows what your issues are in the first place.

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2013, 08:15:15 pm »

Hey, I did'nt realize anyone involved with RA was on the board and would actually read the post.

Problem I found was that I had difficulty getting the buttons setup (physical buttons)
Others didn't have that problem but I tried various settings I got the joystick to work and at one point had the buttons working but couldn't remap them or at least couldn't figure out a way to remap them.

The buttons just kept saying "unknown"

It did'nt seem to save any the sram on mame at least.. I was testing out Mk2/3 and it always complained about default settings.

Ok neither of those are UI and maybe I overlooked something..

The interface is like Barg said, You have to browse to the zip file, Since mame uses a 8.3 naming scheme most games have zip names that look not much like their actual name.

Basically you need a front end for mame (and probably FBA).

It should remember the last folder you was in on a per emulator basis.. every time you want to change a rom I found my self having to navigate several folders to get back to where I was.

The menu seems to only navigate via the controls.. if you're using on screen they partially cover up menu you're navigating.

Also im sure there is a way but I didn't figure it out to bringing up the mame menu (if there is one)
Also getting into service menu on games is nice to be able to do.

BTW why hasn't anyone made a standalone port of the ps1 emu? it seems good the little I tested.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea of retroarch in theory and I think as it progresses it will get better but right now I prefer single emulators.

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2013, 12:40:06 am »

I've experienced the same problems Joe has, especially trying to map keys from the S7800B, but it looks like the tablet will be autodetected in the latest test build, which should take care of that problem.

The problem with MAME on Android in general is that RetroArch pretty much hits the "sweet spot" -- MAME 0.78 -- where the ROMs included are for the most part playable, and it's not so far back that all you can play is Frogger and Dig Dug. As Joe said, other MAMEs for Android seem to be either way too old or include stuff you can't possibly run on a tablet right now.

Still, it would be nice to have a system of custom key settings per ROM and be able to use a cheat.dat file in MAME (looking for cheats is best left to the PC). It would also be nice if RetroArch could recognize ROM filenames and display the name of the game beside them.

I will download the latest test version and try it out. I did not realize the current version was so out of date nor that the test builds were available.

Thanks, all.

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2013, 02:22:45 am »

So, I'm guessing that the test builds are unoptimized debug builds, because even Dig Dug has problems, where it runs fine in 0.9.9.6.

VBA-M is slower than VBA Next, to be sure, but the GBC sound channels sound a lot more correct in VBA-M. I think VBA Next is inserting tiny bits of silence during the tones, which throws them off. It sounds like it's doing this even when the game is at full speed (during menus where not much is going on). Since VBA Next is based on VBA-M, I can only assume some optimization to the sound code has gone awry. I don't know what other GBA games make use of the GBC channels, but I use them extensively, so it's really evident when they're off running my stuff.

I will definitely look at 0.9.9.7 when it's released.

EDIT: Are the joysticks on the S7800B supposed to work in the latest test build? I tried The Empire Strikes Back (esb.zip) again, and with the new S7800B autodetection, I was able to insert a coin and start the game, but I could only use the d-pad for movement, which is crazy sensitive and makes the game unplayable. It's nice that I can at least get a game started, though, even if I'm driving my Snowspeeder like a drunken Tauntaun.

Squarepusher2 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2013, 04:00:08 am »

I don't know the guy who builds the test builds - some have reported problems that aren't there when I build them - so just take them at face value I guess.

Quote from: Bargaintuan on December 03, 2013, 02:22:45 am

So, I'm guessing that the test builds are unoptimized debug builds, because even Dig Dug has problems, where it runs fine in 0.9.9.6.

VBA-M is slower than VBA Next, to be sure, but the GBC sound channels sound a lot more correct in VBA-M. I think VBA Next is inserting tiny bits of silence during the tones, which throws them off. It sounds like it's doing this even when the game is at full speed (during menus where not much is going on). Since VBA Next is based on VBA-M, I can only assume some optimization to the sound code has gone awry. I don't know what other GBA games make use of the GBC channels, but I use them extensively, so it's really evident when they're off running my stuff.

Yes, there were changes to how the blip buffer handles silence. VBA Next is kinda like a performance-focused VBA-M fork.

I might revise the entire APU part again (this time using maister's faster self-written blip buffer ) and try to emulate this correctly. You could submit to me those homespun ROMs so I have something to test against.

Quote

I will definitely look at 0.9.9.7 when it's released.

EDIT: Are the joysticks on the S7800B supposed to work in the latest test build? I tried The Empire Strikes Back (esb.zip) again, and with the new S7800B autodetection, I was able to insert a coin and start the game, but I could only use the d-pad for movement, which is crazy sensitive and makes the game unplayable. It's nice that I can at least get a game started, though, even if I'm driving my Snowspeeder like a drunken Tauntaun.

Which MAME core are you using? I don't think we have default automapping for that game yet. You could tell me how you want the RetroPad buttons to behave for that game and I could add it in.

Or do you mean you want to have analog stick controls for that game? Are the analog sticks on the S7800B even'real', or are they just digital mapped to analog again like so many other gamepadlets?

DaveCooper · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2013, 05:38:50 am »

Hi. I have strange problem on my 7800b - immersion breaking audio delay on FPse, DraStic, Mupen64 and PPSSPP emulators. I tried to change audio latency settings, tried instal latest and custom (SUPERCHARGED 1.0) firmware but no luck, same 500 ms or 1 sec delay.

Anyone have that problem too?

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2013, 12:11:30 pm »

Quote from: Squarepusher2 on December 03, 2013, 04:00:08 am

Or do you mean you want to have analog stick controls for that game? Are the analog sticks on the S7800B even'real', or are they just digital mapped to analog again like so many other gamepadlets?

I'm using 0.78 to directly compare to 0.9.9.6. The S7800B sticks are definitely "real". This is what I get from RetroArch:

LEFT STICK
--------------
UP..DOWN: Pad 0 y -1.0..1.0
LEFT..RIGHT: Pad 0 x -1.0..1.0

RIGHT STICK
----------------
UP..DOWN: Pad 0 rz -0.5..0.5
LEFT..RIGHT: Pad 0 z -0.5..0.5

I don't know why the right stick is only half range, but both sticks are definitely analog, showing all values within the limits above, except for -0.11..0.11 in the left stick and -0.05..0.05 in the right, which I guess are dead zones.

Joe Sixpack · « **Reply #16 on:** December 03, 2013, 04:28:35 pm »

barg, I have the same problem on mine in epsxe, I thought maybe it was just the emulator or a setting or something.

Ace Combat 2

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2013, 06:04:21 pm »

Quote from: Joe Sixpack on December 03, 2013, 04:28:35 pm

barg, I have the same problem on mine in epsxe, I thought maybe it was just the emulator or a setting or something.

Ace Combat 2

Yeah. I think it's deeper than that. I would expect the RetroArch values to be pretty "raw".

stpat · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2013, 06:14:51 pm »

Quote from: Joe Sixpack on December 03, 2013, 04:28:35 pm

barg, I have the same problem on mine in epsxe, I thought maybe it was just the emulator or a setting or something.

Ace Combat 2

You should bring this to willgoo's attention so he can communicate it to JXD (ie: resurrect the "S7800 feedback" thread willgoo started)....

Bargaintuan · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2013, 06:56:24 pm »

Squarepusher, is it normal for the RetroArch test build to take up nearly 300MB? Is it only a test build thing? If the release is goijg to use that kind of space, you might want to consider allowing users to move the assets to the SD card. I had to uninstall the test build because it was taking up too much space.

It's a shame, because I wanted to explore it a bit more.

Author Topic: Best emulators for S7800B? (Read 10749 times)

Bargaintuan (OP)

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