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Author Topic: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?  (Read 9049 times)

exorio

  • Posts: 382
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2019, 06:22:13 pm »
GPD Win even though not "open" by any means, but how would pyra compete with that?
There's nothing that prevents a CFW being made for it, as it is entirely possible.
It's just that given that most people are going to use it for Windows games that such a CFW would be entirely pointles.

EXACTLY. End users won't care what kind of OS installed on it. They want what works.

Quote
But yeah, the Pyra's price is kind of excessive though i guess it does have phone functionality (the model with 4G) going for it.
At least we know that ptitseb and the likes are going to make sure it will be worth it.

LOL the phone inclusion is what happen when you listen to your crowd too much. And that bloats up the price even higher. Although there's an option to choose non 4G one, but still that's more process (design, manufacturing, etc) need to be done.

Wanna bet something? I bet the users who bought the 4G version won't even use the phone. How the hell you place that thing on your face? For data connection? Everyone already have a smartphone with hotspot features by default. That's one. Second, Whatsapp support is critical today. I'm pretty sure Pyra can use Android or Android-x86 but still, what's holding users to get an actual better phones out there?

GPD Win, however, won the competition since it delivers something that previous devices didn't : Windows 10 on SFF.

And after its release I see the suggestions on GPD win in most places they're all typical : 4G support, bigger screen, bigger keyboard, more  this more that, add this add that.

But nobody actually suggested TRIMMING the features on the next iteration. For example? Who actually use the gyrosensor on GPD Win 1? Touchscreen is already implemented in GPD Pocket, but people want touchpads ROFLMAO.

KISS is the way to go, let alone "open source" crowd like this. GPD have way more solid backup behind them, and they're located in Shenzen, on which your phone may come from there.

Surkow

  • * Administrator
  • Posts: 681
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 07:24:08 pm »
A large consortium of companies manages to outcompete a small-time community endeavor. That is not a surprise.

Without the Pandora you wouldn't have access to a N64 ARM dynarec as Ari64 originally targeted the Pandora. DraStic by Exophase is another example of that. Without the GCW Zero we would have had no N64 MIPS dynarec and no PCSX4ALL improvements (done by dmitry_smagin and senquack). Most innovation takes place in niche communities you might not care about, but you certainly will reap the fruit from their labor.

GPD Win and GPD Android consoles depend on existing software markets and bring nothing of value as a development target. All they run is generic software from scenes that are not their own. Of course, being the lowest common denominator these devices end up being the most successful as they are more powerful, more plentiful and therefore cheaper to produce.

exorio

  • Posts: 382
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2019, 06:43:23 am »
A large consortium of companies manages to outcompete a small-time community endeavor. That is not a surprise.

Without the Pandora you wouldn't have access to a N64 ARM dynarec as Ari64 originally targeted the Pandora. DraStic by Exophase is another example of that. Without the GCW Zero we would have had no N64 MIPS dynarec and no PCSX4ALL improvements (done by dmitry_smagin and senquack). Most innovation takes place in niche communities you might not care about, but you certainly will reap the fruit from their labor.

GPD Win and GPD Android consoles depend on existing software markets and bring nothing of value as a development target. All they run is generic software from scenes that are not their own. Of course, being the lowest common denominator these devices end up being the most successful as they are more powerful, more plentiful and therefore cheaper to produce.

You had me wrong bro

It's not that I don't appreciate Pandora for what it was. And I'm not here to bash the community. In fact I CARE about the community, even though you may say I'm a casual nerd/geek. I don't understand things like RISC, Mips, ingenic and all those stuffs. I don't even know how arduino works, why it even existed in the first place and why it such a success lol.

I only know about ingenic from searching for LDK community, that brought me back here. But FYI I've been eyeing these "open source handheld" devices since ages ago, probably even before Pandora, forgot the exact device that first sparks my interest back then.

ED is a ballsy guy taking the plunge with Pandora and Pyra. I give him that. And the innovation of the community are awesome, remember I use Linux as well, without the community Linux won't be as it is today, so I know what the community bring to the table.

I'll give you another example, LDK. Boy do I adore this device so much. It doesn't have anything what pandora nor gpd win deliver. It's above decent device, but built cheaply using cheap materials. Open up and see the LR buttons, what the fuck are those tiny silicon pads taped to the posts? One screw hole of my device already damaged, the plastic stuck to the screws. But it works. And yet again, as you said, without the community this device wouldn't exist in the first place!

As far as I know Pandora is the culmination of the ultimate open handheld device everyone dreamt about. But really, even the nubs are custom made? Why? That just expensive and really hard to do. GPD uses what is already available out there (i.e. Vita's joystick). I know the board is what taking the biggest proportion of the cost, but still, every other components play role in setting the price too, didn't they? And adding 4g option to Pyra is the worst decision ever. Glad GPD didn't do it.

You have to admit : Pandora and Pyra was primarily over-engineered. Also overpriced device that's complicated to build AND to use.

LDK, not so much. Though still not intended for casuals (I even break the stock OS when It first came), but it's simple, cheap to produce, and everyone loves it! If this kind of device specification was made by ED, I'm pretty sure the build quality would be way much different. It cannot do other stuffs (not even playing movies decently) but it does what it's intended to quite well : retro emulation.

However, when I first stumbled upon LDK youtube review there were about less than 5 stores in Aliexpress. Today it fills up to probably 3 pages of stores selling it. That is everyone's ultimate goal eventually : commercial success. Isn't it?

GPD 1 IMO was over engineered as well, but at the last minute they cut corners (bottom aluminum shell for example), 3 joystick switches (xinput, dinput and mousemode). They were trying to please everyone on the first version. Who uses dinput for games today? Also most casuals/non tech geeks said GPD Win was overpriced and underpowered as well. That's why the majority of the mainstream crowd would just take switch for games on the go.

Those are just my opinions and suggestions. Sorry OP for derailing your thread.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 06:44:58 am by exorio »

Jim Goose

  • Posts: 77
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2019, 07:22:26 am »
I am in the process of making my own jz4780 handheld.
Handheld Collection:

PocketC.H.I.P.
RG350

CSX

  • Posts: 59
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2019, 10:35:27 am »
Really enjoying your discussion guys! Lot's of interesting points I never thought about.

I own lot's of handhelds, obscure and mainstream ones, and I was going to buy Pyra, but unfortunately not anymore. I agree with exorio: I have GPD Win, I have GCW Zero why do I need Pyra for this price? I can buy a macbook air for this money.

One more thing to discuss, why nobody is selling copies of GCW Zero? I believe Chinese have all the blueprints and it's an amazing device. Especially after a couple of small fixes like buttons and the screen. Why don't we see a wave of clones on Aliexpress?

gameblabla

  • Posts: 1446
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2019, 07:43:00 pm »
Yeah i agree that there's pretty much no middle end devices...
The only ones that come close to it are the Gameshell & Retrostone.

Gameshell is a bit on the expensive and isn't much better than the RS-97 other than its slightly better performance.
It's also available only in kit form.
Retrostone 1 would have been a great contender if it wasn't for the fact that the screen was awful.
I'm still working on the CFW  for the retrostone (and sadly i'm encountering a few hurdles rofl...) so i hope i can make it decent.

I can't wait to see what design he's gonna come up with the Retrostone 2 however price is going to be important.

One more thing to discuss, why nobody is selling copies of GCW Zero? I believe Chinese have all the blueprints and it's an amazing device. Especially after a couple of small fixes like buttons and the screen. Why don't we see a wave of clones on Aliexpress?
Well Justin basically crooked people (including Fanatic) who tried to get new units to sell and he would constantly complain about "family problems" since 2013 or so... I believe around 2000~3000 units were sold if the kickstarter is to be believed.

There was going to be a market clone of the GCW0 at some point (jutley used to own one) but as Surkow said before, supplies on JZ4770s are short.

Quote
I am in the process of making my own jz4780 handheld.
Let us know your progress on it !
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 07:46:37 pm by gameblabla »

Jim Goose

  • Posts: 77
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 09:16:44 pm »
About the jz4780 and the jz4770. You can piece together orders. A lot of places only have them in the 100s for 10 to 15 dollars a chip. I got myself a good few for prototyping which I showed gameblabla in a message. If you look around and are willing to piece orders together. You can get a lot, I know that isn?t optimal, but I cannot speak chinese and it is all I got. The m200 chips are identical in terms of power as far as I know. But there is not any support for them. With that being said, I have made a bit of progress. I might be done around summer next year with the board. The shell is another beast that I?ll have to figure out. I am not doing a kickstarter, I am just making them and selling them for exactly the price all the fabrication is costing.
Handheld Collection:

PocketC.H.I.P.
RG350

exorio

  • Posts: 382
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2019, 05:39:53 pm »
About the jz4780 and the jz4770. You can piece together orders. A lot of places only have them in the 100s for 10 to 15 dollars a chip. I got myself a good few for prototyping which I showed gameblabla in a message. If you look around and are willing to piece orders together. You can get a lot, I know that isn?t optimal, but I cannot speak chinese and it is all I got. The m200 chips are identical in terms of power as far as I know. But there is not any support for them. With that being said, I have made a bit of progress. I might be done around summer next year with the board. The shell is another beast that I?ll have to figure out. I am not doing a kickstarter, I am just making them and selling them for exactly the price all the fabrication is costing.

Sweet. Update the progress here. IMO I've said it again and again, LDK is the sweet spot. 6 buttons is just right. I just wish they put it as 6 facebuttons thus games like MVC works much better. But most of the time outside capcom's fighting game 4 buttons is enough.

Anyway a bit off topic, but still relevant.

Was thinking about raspberry pi, them chinese had it figured out, with lots of DIY gameboy Pi projects on youtube but only the very minority have the skills and tools to do such thing. Look at how many raspberry pi handheld consoles on Aliexpress, you'll be surprised.

They use pre-existing materials and community softwares, and by what the community has produced for Pi you simply can't go wrong with it. Most likely only manufacturing the addons board (for controller and display) and the shell.

Some of them are actually pretty good, and some even came in metal shell.



Looks VERY STURDY. And it is usable as Linux desktop AFAIK, with Pixel DE (LXDE). Think of it as a portable and playable Raspberry Pi case. Only problem is that I don't know how SLOW it would be.

If desktop applications on Pi 3B+ is decent, this is a good alternative to GPD win and the likes. I might even get this one even with that price tag. But chrome struggling waaay too hard on 3B+. So nope.



I'm probably getting this one (Ugeek), since there're Pi Zero W sellers nearby my location. May won't even be able to emulate PSX well. But since I already own an LDK I won't need any other bigger emulation handheld device anymore, I'm holding back.

See I've been eyeing Raspiboy for awhile too, but didn't take the jump. The device is badly designed, but the solderless DIY kit is attractive nevertheless, for someone who lack the soldering and electronic skills like me. Almost did the jump on the Raspiboy, but didn't because of the design lol. Perhaps the community can do something like that instead?

My point is : why reinvent the wheel. $20-50 DIY solderless kit with common parts (MicroUSB) and batteries, like nokia's or standard 18650 or even AAA batteries (Batteries are problematic to import BTW) should be very attractive for everyone.

Why Pi? Say whatever you want but the Pi community have produced great deal of content. And that's what's the most important thing : THE BEEF.

CSX

  • Posts: 59
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2019, 10:38:51 pm »
Yeah i agree that there's pretty much no middle end devices...
The only ones that come close to it are the Gameshell & Retrostone.

Retroflag GPi is going to be released in a couple of days. I'm sure they will do v2 with CM3 module very soon. Then we will have a kind of a cheap Freeplay in a GB case.

Well Justin basically crooked people (including Fanatic) who tried to get new units to sell and he would constantly complain about "family problems" since 2013 or so... I believe around 2000~3000 units were sold if the kickstarter is to be believed.

There was going to be a market clone of the GCW0 at some point (jutley used to own one) but as Surkow said before, supplies on JZ4770s are short.

That's interesting! Thanks!

Surkow

  • * Administrator
  • Posts: 681
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2019, 10:57:42 pm »
Yeah i agree that there's pretty much no middle end devices...
The only ones that come close to it are the Gameshell & Retrostone.

Retroflag GPi is going to be released in a couple of days. I'm sure they will do v2 with CM3 module very soon. Then we will have a kind of a cheap Freeplay in a GB case.

Well Justin basically crooked people (including Fanatic) who tried to get new units to sell and he would constantly complain about "family problems" since 2013 or so... I believe around 2000~3000 units were sold if the kickstarter is to be believed.

There was going to be a market clone of the GCW0 at some point (jutley used to own one) but as Surkow said before, supplies on JZ4770s are short.

That's interesting! Thanks!

Kickstarter resulted in about 1500 or so units being produced. Thinkgeek sales already add up to more than 4k units even without including webshops selling small batches of GCW Zero units.

There is no GCW Zero clone. Previously the factory sold some prototypes via Taobao. They weren't legally allowed to do that as GCW LLC owns the trademark and the distribution rights.

tonyjih

  • Posts: 29
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2019, 06:23:12 am »
Soon  ;)

slaanesh (OP)

  • Posts: 569
    • Slaanesh Dev
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2019, 06:25:26 am »
Soon  ;)
There will be GCW Zero clone?

tonyjih

  • Posts: 29
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2019, 06:30:32 am »
Can't tell much for now, but there will be another 4770 device
and yes, fully open source :)

slaanesh (OP)

  • Posts: 569
    • Slaanesh Dev
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2019, 06:31:22 am »
Sounds fully awesome!

gang00ge

  • Posts: 1
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2019, 08:29:02 am »
Can't tell much for now, but there will be another 4770 device
and yes, fully open source :)
good

CSX

  • Posts: 59
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2019, 01:33:11 pm »
Can't tell much for now, but there will be another 4770 device
and yes, fully open source :)

* CSX saving money.

Where do we subscribe to updates? If it's a good 3:4 screen I'll throw my money to it immediately.

podulator

  • Posts: 8
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2019, 01:50:25 pm »
I finally got round to registering after 2 years of lurking to say the same, 3.4 screen, job done :)

kapster

  • Posts: 108
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2019, 03:41:35 am »
Can't tell much for now, but there will be another 4770 device
and yes, fully open source :)

Can't come soon enough  ;D

Jutleys

  • Posts: 1795
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2019, 02:53:42 pm »
We have a section for this device started here on my discord channel for updates join :) https://discordapp.com/invite/tkEV6F2

lazanti

  • Posts: 88
Re: When are we going to see a new handheld with jz4770 or jz4780?
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2019, 05:32:14 pm »
Can't tell much for now, but there will be another 4770 device
and yes, fully open source :)
I don't like the form factor, but it will sell ;)

 

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