Author Topic: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!  (Read 16951 times)

fvig2001

  • Posts: 32
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2016, 11:48:48 pm »
I hate the new mouse behavior and the improvement on the scrolling is nice but I don't scroll much. Anyone tested if the gamepad actually got improvements?

jimboton

  • Posts: 35
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2016, 07:30:09 am »
I hate the new mouse behavior and the improvement on the scrolling is nice but I don't scroll much. Anyone tested if the gamepad actually got improvements?
Yeah, I have. No improvement on my end.

Exhumed

  • Posts: 5
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2016, 02:48:44 pm »
What are the chances this is a fixable software problem?
This is currently my number one problem that is holding me back from placing an order.

I've registered only to second this.
I was already taking a huge risk ordering this as it was; shipments from China take no less than 50-70 days to reach me and receiving a faulty unit seems to me like a russian roulette with half a barrel loaded. By the time I send and receive a product for repair/replacement it will have become outdated. Nonetheless, I decided to compromise. ....Well, that was before I read this thread.

At approx. $500 the GPD Win is no longer on my short list. Of course, I would definitely be impressed and place an order if this gets resolved. If this won't be the case I won't mind, for I am sure there's at least one decent company out there that cares for both its actual and potential clients and has a lot to learn from GPD. I'm in no rush. In business somebody always comes in to fill the gaps.

shinkamui

  • Posts: 395
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2016, 04:36:41 am »
well, its not a lost cause.  The update proves it can be updated, now the pudding recipe needs to be changed.  They updated the mouse to some janky accelerated nonsense, but the response times are still bad on the controller.  Its hard to know what they did exactly since they're working in a black box.  I would suggest again that everyone in this thread who's got a vested interest in getting this problem fixed write kendy and support  (kelvin at gpd dot hk) and request that they take another stab at the controls.  If we dont send direct correspondence, its very likely that this check box has been checked and they're moving on.  I would also suggest since we can't all agree on a single control scheme that you kindly recommend that they create 2 or 3 updaters with different control schemes or at least offer a choice in the updater.  At the very least, there's a chance that having options will result in more than a small portion of us being happier than we are today. 

Malek

  • Posts: 2
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2016, 07:38:53 am »
I asked from Kelvin if they are still looking into this issue. This is the response I received:

"Abxy  D - pad has been improving the response speed, we test is OK, some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware, and confirm the key response speed has been greatly improved. The mouse model of fast moving is still in perfect."

I don't know if this firmware he is referring to is the same one posted on this forum or a another one.

Exhumed

  • Posts: 5
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2016, 11:31:47 am »
I asked from Kelvin if they are still looking into this issue. This is the response I received:

"Abxy  D - pad has been improving the response speed, we test is OK, some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware, and confirm the key response speed has been greatly improved. The mouse model of fast moving is still in perfect."

I don't know if this firmware he is referring to is the same one posted on this forum or a another one.

Let me get this straight: GPD and some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware and confirmed that the response speed has been greatly improved. If this is true we can safely conclude one of the following:

1) those that tested the controller firmware and didn't report any improvement in response speed were not using the new and latest controller firmware;
2) the response speed GPD is reffering to is not the same as the polling rate people here complain about;
3) those that tested the controller firmware and didn't report any improvement are not intelligent enough to make a proper test;
4) those that say the latest controller firmware didn't resolve the issue are lying.

Of course there is also the possibility of GPD being the ones not telling the truth.

If this isn't a customer greatest nightmare, than what is?
- Sir, my product has a defect.
- Nah man, you're seeing thing.

No matter the truth, IMO GPD's approach to this particular issue is insulting. They're calling some of us stupid ...or not smart enough to identify a problem with our own devices - if that suits you better.

On a side note, I can only wonder if those Chinese people that see great improvements in controller's response speed have also seen great improvments in potency and fertility after taking powder "medicine" made from tiger's genitals.

jimboton

  • Posts: 35
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2016, 12:57:55 pm »
I asked from Kelvin if they are still looking into this issue. This is the response I received:

"Abxy  D - pad has been improving the response speed, we test is OK, some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware, and confirm the key response speed has been greatly improved. The mouse model of fast moving is still in perfect."

I don't know if this firmware he is referring to is the same one posted on this forum or a another one.

Let me get this straight: GPD and some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware and confirmed that the response speed has been greatly improved. If this is true we can safely conclude one of the following:

1) those that tested the controller firmware and didn't report any improvement in response speed were not using the new and latest controller firmware;
2) the response speed GPD is reffering to is not the same as the polling rate people here complain about;
3) those that tested the controller firmware and didn't report any improvement are not intelligent enough to make a proper test;
4) those that say the latest controller firmware didn't resolve the issue are lying.

Of course there is also the possibility of GPD being the ones not telling the truth.

If this isn't a customer greatest nightmare, than what is?
- Sir, my product has a defect.
- Nah man, you're seeing thing.

No matter the truth, IMO GPD's approach to this particular issue is insulting. They're calling some of us stupid ...or not smart enough to identify a problem with our own devices - if that suits you better.

On a side note, I can only wonder if those Chinese people that see great improvements in controller's response speed have also seen great improvments in potency and fertility after taking powder "medicine" made from tiger's genitals.

Well, I have explained clearly in this thread the software and method I have used to reach the conclusion that the improvement, if it exists at all, is negligible (from 56 -57 down to 50 ms). My results should be possible to reproduce by anyone who cares enough to take 10 minutes to do so. I'm the first to admit my test is not great as it uses mouse mode instead of xinput, I doubt that makes a difference, but still. What tests have these chinese gamers done to conclude that "key response speed has been greatly improved"? I'll be happy try them on my GPD!

This is starting to sound like their update did what it could to improve 'resp?nse' firmware-wise, but the 20 hz bottleneck is elsewhere, likely a hardware issue. What's even more worrying about GPD denying the problem is not so much that our Wins may not get fixed, but that it may not be fixed in future models or revisions either.

But really, they should back their statement with something more than 'some Chinese gamers say so' particularly when as far as I know those chinese gamers didn't spot the problem in the first place, it was in this forum.






sakya

  • Posts: 25
    • Sakya's Homepage
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2016, 01:25:14 pm »
"Abxy  D - pad has been improving the response speed, we test is OK, some Chinese players have tested the new controller firmware, and confirm the key response speed has been greatly improved. The mouse model of fast moving is still in perfect."
Is this a joke? Should we laugh?

Mountainmohawk

  • Posts: 80
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2016, 04:03:42 am »
I've barely even used my system. I REALLY want this to be fixed.

Gin2168

  • Posts: 291
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2016, 04:09:00 am »
I've barely even used my system. I REALLY want this to be fixed.

Same, between the DPAD and this, fighting games just aren't fun =\. Really not interested in modifying the system until I know whether or not this will get truly fixed.

enodr

  • Posts: 54
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2016, 11:54:30 am »
Hi guys,

I have been investigating a little bit. I can confirm the XINPUT input lag is still there. Idiot proof is just that some games badly react to the input lag and still behave badly after the update.

So far I found an interesting piece of information. The gamepad controller is not manufactured by GPD themself but by a company specialized in making gamepad adpaters. The company is HJZ Mayflash. They, among other, build the Dolphin bar and many PS3 / Wii / etc USB adapters for PC.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to contact them directly to have the bug fixed or at least have some kind of datasheet for the microcontroller they use.

http://www.mayflash.com/

Edit: interesting post about mayflash adapter input lag -> https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1zz3yr/best_way_to_play_dolphin_emulator_without_lag/
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 12:03:14 pm by enodr »

Mountainmohawk

  • Posts: 80
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2016, 03:09:32 am »
Hi guys,

I have been investigating a little bit. I can confirm the XINPUT input lag is still there. Idiot proof is just that some games badly react to the input lag and still behave badly after the update.

So far I found an interesting piece of information. The gamepad controller is not manufactured by GPD themself but by a company specialized in making gamepad adpaters. The company is HJZ Mayflash. They, among other, build the Dolphin bar and many PS3 / Wii / etc USB adapters for PC.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to contact them directly to have the bug fixed or at least have some kind of datasheet for the microcontroller they use.

http://www.mayflash.com/

Edit: interesting post about mayflash adapter input lag -> https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1zz3yr/best_way_to_play_dolphin_emulator_without_lag/


I found it interesting that people were able to tinker with settings in device manager to fix the lag. Does anything show up in the GPD Win under those settings?

jimboton

  • Posts: 35
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2016, 06:08:47 pm »
I've had some answers today from Kelvin.

This is what he had to say about there being no significant improvement in apparent polling rate after the firmware patch:

"Handle button response speed has been greatly improved, this is certain. What tools do you use to test the speed of 20 hz? To be honest, I don't understand what is the real meaning of 20 hz, perhaps you are using tools cannot be used to test the handle

Silica gel pad will also affect key response speed, we have improved the silicone pad material, improve the elasticity, which is beneficial to rapid response buttons"


After a second email explaining what I meant about 20 hz and the tool I had used to test this, came this second reply:

"The mouse mode, the button response speed without correction, in handle x mode, key response speed increased twice"

So, according to Kelvin, polling rate should now be 40 hz in xinput mode, unchanged in mouse mode. Don't really know what to make of this, so I'll just leave it here. Just in case I have asked him if they plan on improving on it further, as 40 hz hardly ideal.


sakya

  • Posts: 25
    • Sakya's Homepage
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2016, 06:54:21 pm »
To be honest, I don't understand what is the real meaning of 20 hz
So: they don't understand the problem....but they fixed it. Wow!  :)

shinkamui

  • Posts: 395
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2016, 07:13:29 pm »
The alleged new batch of wins with all the fixes and this new firmware, I wonder if the firmware IS the firmware they already released. 

enodr

  • Posts: 54
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2016, 08:23:22 am »
To be honest I don't really know what the problem is with XINPUT but for sure some games are unplayable currently even with the update (Pankapu on steam is one example I know of).

Yet I don't know how to "scientifically" test the input lag. With an oscilloscope maybe (which I don't have)? Or a test program which would log all values coming from the gamepad in XINPUT mode? Or a USB sniffer. If someone here is a bit tech savvy I can give a hand trying to figure out.

jimboton

  • Posts: 35
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2016, 11:23:19 am »
Three more emails from kelvin regarding the polling rate:

"Handle pattern: the original firmware sampling frequency is 50 times per second, not 20. The new firmware to 100 times per second"

"The mouse model, the design of the earliest abxy and D PAD are not functional. Later changed the keyboard wasd and function of the up and down or so, don't rule out the possibility of button response speed is slow, but the mouse mode, the button response speed is not very important"

"Your test tool Can test the keyboard, can't test the handle. GDP win the mouse mode, the abxy is also a keyboard peripherals, keyboard there is no sense in your test.
This improvement is handle mode button response speed"


So he now says the original sampling frequency was never 20 Hz but 50 (in xinput mode), and that it now is 100 hz. I don't know of a way to test the buttons in xinput mode to assess the truth of his statement.

At this point it would be good to hear from Downsider if he's still following the thread who was the first to spot dodgy polling behaviour by being unable to pull off a move that requires a button depress time lower than 3 frames (48 ms) in Melee, which he was able to perform using keyboard keys. Was that in mouse mode, dinput mode or xinput mode? And more importantly, can that move be performed with the face buttons after the firmware patch?

Subjectively, I can say without a doubt that games on my Win are nowhere near as responsive as when played on my desktop, but then again, that one I built specifically to minimize input lag including cabled gamepad and 144hz gaming monitor so perhaps it's not a fair comparison.

Gin2168

  • Posts: 291
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2016, 04:05:03 pm »
Three more emails from kelvin regarding the polling rate:

"Handle pattern: the original firmware sampling frequency is 50 times per second, not 20. The new firmware to 100 times per second"

"The mouse model, the design of the earliest abxy and D PAD are not functional. Later changed the keyboard wasd and function of the up and down or so, don't rule out the possibility of button response speed is slow, but the mouse mode, the button response speed is not very important"

"Your test tool Can test the keyboard, can't test the handle. GDP win the mouse mode, the abxy is also a keyboard peripherals, keyboard there is no sense in your test.
This improvement is handle mode button response speed"


So he now says the original sampling frequency was never 20 Hz but 50 (in xinput mode), and that it now is 100 hz. I don't know of a way to test the buttons in xinput mode to assess the truth of his statement.

At this point it would be good to hear from Downsider if he's still following the thread who was the first to spot dodgy polling behaviour by being unable to pull off a move that requires a button depress time lower than 3 frames (48 ms) in Melee, which he was able to perform using keyboard keys. Was that in mouse mode, dinput mode or xinput mode? And more importantly, can that move be performed with the face buttons after the firmware patch?

Subjectively, I can say without a doubt that games on my Win are nowhere near as responsive as when played on my desktop, but then again, that one I built specifically to minimize input lag including cabled gamepad and 144hz gaming monitor so perhaps it's not a fair comparison.

@Downsider can you weigh in on this?

sakya

  • Posts: 25
    • Sakya's Homepage
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2016, 06:55:14 pm »
I made a test regarding the XInput polling rate.

Software used:

Mouse rate checker lets you check...the mouse polling rate.
On the GPD Win using mouse mode the polling rate is 125Hz (locked by Windows 10: also my desktop mouse reports 125Hz).

How to run the test:
  • Open JoyToKey and map POV Up, POV Down, POV Left and POV Right to the mouse movements
  • Open Mouse rate checker, switch to XInput mode and move the mouse cursor in the application area

This way we can check the Dpad polling rate.
My test gave me an average rate of 53Hz

EDIT: To do a better test set the mouse movment to 10 (not 100). This way I get a value of 60Hz (probably because I don't exit the application area  :P )
To check the A/B/Y/X buttons use Button 1, 2, 3, 4 and set them also to mouse movement: same result as the DPAD (60Hz)

EDIT2: I'm using the updated firmware.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:18:39 pm by sakya »

Maniac

  • Posts: 421
Re: Increase polling rate for GPD Win controls? It's REALLY SLOW right now!
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2016, 11:01:30 am »
Thanks for some solid evidence sakya! Looks like GPD fixed it. Could someone try this with the old firmware?

 

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