Dingoonity.org

Other Portable Consoles => GPD Windows Devices => Topic started by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 12:10:11 am

Title: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 12:10:11 am
Well since the IndieGogo campaign for the GPD WIN has finished, I thought I'd start a poll to see how many of us backed it , didn't back it, or are waiting on reviews.  Vote  and feel free to comment on specifics of why you did/didn't back it or will never back it.

Curious to know also if you backed the WIN over getting a Pyra


Please vote in the Poll above


Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: on April 27, 2016, 02:17:28 am
Didn't back it up, fat chance that I will buy it in the future - but I look forward towards reviews.

I think it has many problems, ergonomically and specs-wise, and unless someone can get a hands-on impression and either confirm or deny my suspicions I just don't see it as a viable option.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on April 27, 2016, 03:28:55 am
I have been waiting for a powerful gaming focused UMPC for years now. I would have backed this even if it was double the price.

Now I will have an upgrade from my oqo model 2 I've been holding onto.

I don't think people quite understand what this Intel z8550 chipset is capable of playing.

I know it'll be able to play Dark Souls 1 and 2 with relative ease on low to mid settings. - I have not played this yet so it's a system seller here.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 03:42:22 am
Apollo lake SoCs will be coming out about the same time the GPD WIN goes on sale late this year.

I'm curious to see what peoples reaction will be.  It really hasn't been spoken about, a lot of people mentioned current chips (Core M etc), but not much if at all has been said about the impending Intel SoCs that are coming to replace Cherry Trail SoCs.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of , "can you make a version of GPD WIN with an Apollo Lake SoC please".   

That unfortunately always happens with every new SoC released.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Pleng on April 27, 2016, 08:26:09 am
I'm not backing a device on a promise that "we'll add Android later". Had it been a dual-OS device out-of-the-box, or Android only, I'd have backed it.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 09:07:32 am
I'm not backing a device on a promise that "we'll add Android later". Had it been a dual-OS device out-of-the-box, or Android only, I'd have backed it.

If you would be happy with an Android only device, then isn't what you are after the XD 2?
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: knightron on April 27, 2016, 12:29:48 pm
I think GPD's general reception to the feedback of the members here, eg the people most likely to buy it, is quite appalling to be honest. I found their refusal to acknowledge other member's valid criticisms to be a big turn off. I'd be much more inclined to purchase the Pyra as its creators obviously use their devices and seem to even care about what the users want. Regardless, i was somewhat disappointed with a few things about my Pandora that would make me hesitant in purchasing a Pyra too.
Of all the devices soon to be released, the GPD XD2 seems the most worth while. I would purchase the XD2 over either of the GPD-Win or Pyra.

Something i never saw brought up with the GPD Win was the battery life. There was a member on the Pandora boards that used to always express his yearning for an x86 hand held and people used to always shut him up and claim that it would get too hot and the interior fan being continuously run to cool the device down would destroy the battery life.  I'm surprised that no one seems to have considered this variable with the GPD Win.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 01:17:25 pm
@knightron

As someone obviously who is top of the list in regards to being disappointed that the keyboard letter keys were not centered, I do however feel you are being unfair.  GPD in fact made a lot of changes to the WIN via user feedback.

1)  They changed to using the Z8550 instead of the Z8500 .  The Z8550 request was brought up by me, and pushed by the community until they made the change.

2)  They added a ton of keys to the keyboard that the community requested , including:  Pg U, Pg Dn, Home, End, Xbox Guide , Print Screen, Scroll lock , Pause and Insert

3)  Xinput and Dinput modes were added due to community requests

4)  Dual channel Wifi , again added due to community requests

5)  I think even dual channel memory and Blutooth 4.1 were possibly added due to community requests

I'm sure I'm forgretting a number of other things.

So yeah, it's pretty unfair to say they haven't listened to us.


As for what has been said on the Pandora forum re Intel SoCs.  That has changed over time. There was a point in time were people were unaware that Intel SoCs had caught up with ARM SoCs in regards to power usage.  Over time, that has changed, and most people over there now understand that they are competitive with ARM in this front.

As for a fan, there is no fan ATM on the WIN. They plan to use a big heat sink.  Just on the point re heating, even ARM SoCs get really hot when pushed, and heat is an issue with them also (You will notice EDs concern in trying to keep the OMAP 5 cool so it doesn't thermally throttle) .  You only need to look at the latest smartphones (G7, Lumia 950 XL etc) which now are using liquid cooling heat pipes to cool them down and help give you more time before they thermally throttle. 
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Pleng on April 27, 2016, 01:21:04 pm
I'm not backing a device on a promise that "we'll add Android later". Had it been a dual-OS device out-of-the-box, or Android only, I'd have backed it.

If you would be happy with an Android only device, then isn't what you are after the XD 2?

Not unless they're planning on putting a keyboard on the XD 2
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Deen0X on April 27, 2016, 01:45:45 pm
nooooo, please, no keyboard. is some really useless on this kind of devices, IMHO

in fact, i really hope GPD will release a WIN-ANDROID (DualOS)  based device WITHOUT keyboard, and priorize gaming controls for comfortable and good experience on gaming.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on April 27, 2016, 02:10:00 pm
Have you ever used a portable Windows device before.
Without a real keyboard you can't navigate the BIOS or enter text in any game

Basically there is no possible way to have a playable Windows gaming device without a keyboard.

Also if you really want Android or linux on this device then you simply need to install it , you can install android on any Windows based machine as long as you know how to partition and set it up.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Deen0X on April 27, 2016, 02:31:13 pm
yes, every day. i'm playing on windows devices from a year ago, and i don?t need a keyboard.

if you prefer to play games that requires keyboard, ok, then you need a keyboard, but most games don?t need a keyboard for proper playing. (of course, i'm speaking about gamepad supported. if you have a device with gamepad, why you want to play a game that doesn't support?)

but, as i said, this is my opinion. i prefer a gaming device focussed on gamepad, without keyboard, becuse is really useless for playing.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Deen0X on April 27, 2016, 02:32:28 pm
and for bios, well, you can plug an external keyboard and set bios options... but this is something that you don?t need to do everyday.

in fact, i didn't touch my bios from... months ago.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 02:41:10 pm
@Deen0X

Considering you prefer the Q9 form factor (and no keyboard).  Can I ask why you have never pushed for a Q9 update with better specs and dual boot.  This seems to fit more to what you're after.

For example , why not push for lets call it the Q10, something with an upcoming Apollo lake SoC , dual boot, better sticks, a metal back case that is attached to the SoC for cooling etc etc.   

Remember what I said about not trying to change product brands/lines into something they are not, and that you'd have better luck asking for things with a product that's more in line with your desires.  It seems to me an update to the Q9 is what you're after.


Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Deen0X on April 27, 2016, 02:51:27 pm
yes, Q9 may be fine, but i prefer small screens. 5 or 6 inches.

and i hate the L1, R1, L2 and R2 buttons from Q series... are so uncomfortable.

but the design i proposed is a valid design for both, 5~6" or 7~8 inches.

personally, i think big screen may be suitable for a proper keyboard, and small screens for gaming controls without keyboard.


in any case, if GPD release a Q series with DualBoot, for sure will be my favorite device, without doubts.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: GPDWIN Gamer on April 27, 2016, 04:18:31 pm
I backed it and looking forward to receiving the GPD WIN. Glad they made the upgrades they did at the communities feedback. I just like tinkering with things like this as a hobby. My GPD XD is supposed to arrive today and stoked to enjoy that as well.   ;D
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Skelton-retired on April 27, 2016, 05:55:15 pm
I voted last option. I have no interest in it to be honest. I?ll wait for an Xd 2 with android or another device like that,
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 27, 2016, 11:48:16 pm
I'm really looking forward to seeing the first working prototype
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Pleng on April 28, 2016, 08:56:07 am
nooooo, please, no keyboard. is some really useless on this kind of devices, IMHO

It's clearly not useless, that's a ridiculous thing to say. You personally have little use for it, fine, but it clearly has uses, and plenty of them.

Anyway, the XD2 isn't going to have a keyboard; which was my point - it's not an appropriate substitute for the WIN
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Deen0X on April 28, 2016, 11:48:42 am
yes, no keyboard, but will be only android, and this is a bad point for me.

i want the XD2, running Windows and Android... and focussed to gaming (insist, without keyboard) this is what i and many (really many) other people want.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Panja on April 28, 2016, 12:29:48 pm
No interest has my vote.
I love my XD, maybe the XD2 will do the trick for me.
But for now I'm pretty happy with the device I have.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: barai on April 28, 2016, 12:35:45 pm
Chose not to back it, interested but will wait for reviews first.
Pyra coming out soon is tempting, but out of the two leaning more towards Gpd win.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 28, 2016, 01:59:07 pm
I'm not backing a device on a promise that "we'll add Android later". Had it been a dual-OS device out-of-the-box, or Android only, I'd have backed it.

If you would be happy with an Android only device, then isn't what you are after the XD 2?

Not unless they're planning on putting a keyboard on the XD 2

Oh I see , of course - forgot about that chestnut :)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 28, 2016, 03:08:48 pm
Here's a nice pic I found with keyboard labelled, not in color yet, ie the function keys should be blue etc.

(http://forum.hkepc.net/month_1604/1604221723c23d23075b3eb912.jpg)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: dkabot on April 28, 2016, 04:27:24 pm
I've seen some pretty cheap stuff already (WinBook 7", $70, 1GB RAM, Windows...) so my figuring is that the Win can't be worse than that (which was actually pretty okay).

The last time I ran emulators on handhelds were a Dingoo A320 (RIP battery) and some PSPs, so it'll definitely outperform those. Not sure about native games, I know plenty will run but haven't particularly looked into it.

Granted, I'd say most of the want for this is the cool factor (Clamshell Windows? Old tags like UMPC being relevant? Sign me up!) but I'm sure I can come up with something to do on it, even if it's just Steam In-Home Streaming.

(Steam streaming, strangely, works far better for me than any attempts at Moonlight, so there's that.)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: businesstron on April 28, 2016, 04:41:34 pm
I backed it myself over a month ago. I'd rather pay $300 now after company bonuses and tax refund then try to pay $500 for it around Christmas.    I'm not planning on using this for any old school gaming though.  I already have a Q9, Nvidia SHield (portable and Tablet) and Classic Pandora for that.    I'm excited to play some low requirement Steam indie games on this.  Stuff like Valids Store, Mercenary Kings, Expendabros, and other metroidvanias and rouge games.   

If it can play stuff like Skyrim or Dark Souls or even emulate Gamecube and PS2 games successfully then that will be a huge bonus for me. If it doesn't i'll still be satisfied as long as the lower requirement stuff works.   

Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: redlemon on April 28, 2016, 04:59:02 pm
I'm excited to play some low requirement Steam indie games on this.  Stuff like Valids Store, Mercenary Kings, Expendabros, and other metroidvanias and rouge games.   

While I haven't backed the win this is my main hope for it as well. (In addition to some VNs). There's a lot of indie games that I would like to play but not necessarily on my monitor or TV. Some have Vita ports but I prefer the clamshell form factor and there's a lot of PC-only indie games designed for a gamepad.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Ronny on April 28, 2016, 11:29:11 pm
The GPD will never make a decent device. There will always be problems or failures in the project.
In this case the GPD WIN the keyboard is ridiculous with those letters in caps giant look, it seems that the keyboard is crying, does not match the unit.
Very ugly.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on April 29, 2016, 12:38:37 am
Why does it matter what it looks like ? As long as the device does what it's supposed to do then who cares. That is some very non productive nitpicking as there is obviously another reason that you don't like the device, care to share ?
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 29, 2016, 01:50:29 am
I don't think the letters look ugly at all.   Each to their own I guess


In other news, here's a new pic of the GPD WIN PCB:

In case the image below is broken, here's the source :  http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4513314132


(http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/w%3D580/sign=927362b59545d688a302b2ac94c37dab/56a28b43ad4bd113227e1cb45dafa40f4afb05b8.jpg)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: on April 29, 2016, 03:02:42 am
Seeing that is like a slap in the face. The CPU socket is right beneath the keyboard's location.
Which also means, the real estate between the joysticks is unused, and they could've moved the menu buttons there without any trouble.
That also means that any heatsink they'll put there will be very thin, and unless it's humongous - it won't dissipate heat properly. I hope they at least have the common sense of increasing its surface area, especially near the tiny holes they call vents.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 29, 2016, 04:18:38 am
Yeah, not sure whats up there.   I'll say nothing
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MOFO on April 29, 2016, 05:15:20 am
No way I'm backing something still in the design stages, would need to at least see some sort of working prototype before giving them my hard earned money.
I like the concept but have reservations about the decisions GPD decided to go with, will wait and see how all this plays out.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 29, 2016, 05:16:31 am
I think it wont be too long before they have a working prototype. 
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 29, 2016, 02:35:59 pm
It's interesting that the power button is flat and lower than the other keys


(http://forum.hkepc.net/month_1604/1604221723c23d23075b3eb912.jpg)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Saber on April 29, 2016, 03:50:27 pm
Seeing that is like a slap in the face. The CPU socket is right beneath the keyboard's location.
Which also means, the real estate between the joysticks is unused, and they could've moved the menu buttons there without any trouble.
It's an unknown how yet effective their spread design is at cooling but the heatsink should be relatively sizable since it stands the full height of the upper middle quadrant, "drawing" heat from the low side expansive sheet of metal we saw previously, modestly assisted by that dissipation speaker venting. Being optimistic here.:)

Also, a pic of the XD for comparisons: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLCz4XkUAAAuQ6N.jpg
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: pantwi on April 29, 2016, 05:12:02 pm
yes, every day. i'm playing on windows devices from a year ago, and i don?t need a keyboard.

if you prefer to play games that requires keyboard, ok, then you need a keyboard, but most games don?t need a keyboard for proper playing. (of course, i'm speaking about gamepad supported. if you have a device with gamepad, why you want to play a game that doesn't support?)

but, as i said, this is my opinion. i prefer a gaming device focussed on gamepad, without keyboard, becuse is really useless for playing.

I definately agree with you. I feel that they should not have added a key board to be honest.
it just takes away from the gamepad.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: pantwi on April 29, 2016, 05:19:53 pm
yes, every day. i'm playing on windows devices from a year ago, and i don?t need a keyboard.

if you prefer to play games that requires keyboard, ok, then you need a keyboard, but most games don?t need a keyboard for proper playing. (of course, i'm speaking about gamepad supported. if you have a device with gamepad, why you want to play a game that doesn't support?)

but, as i said, this is my opinion. i prefer a gaming device focussed on gamepad, without keyboard, becuse is really useless for playing.

I definately agree with you. I feel that they should not have added a key board to be honest.
it just takes away from the gamepad.

Maybe should have decided to add an extra attachment and make the keyboard an accessory that gamer can add.
kind of like the keyboard add on for xbox360.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: on April 29, 2016, 06:53:34 pm
Seeing that is like a slap in the face. The CPU socket is right beneath the keyboard's location.
Which also means, the real estate between the joysticks is unused, and they could've moved the menu buttons there without any trouble.
It's an unknown how yet effective their spread design is at cooling but the heatsink should be relatively sizable since it stands the full height of the upper middle quadrant, "drawing" heat from the low side expansive sheet of metal we saw previously, modestly assisted by that dissipation speaker venting. Being optimistic here.:)

Also, a pic of the XD for comparisons: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLCz4XkUAAAuQ6N.jpg
You see, seeing their previous design, you can tell they're just trying to copy-paste their old heat sink. Look at the heat pipe on the GPD Win's PCB - the golden bar between the analogs - and you you can realize they just rotated their original design 90 degrees counter-clockwise. Also, the speakers aren't going to affect anything more than usual, and they won't even be close to the CPU so it can even be justified design-wise.
However, the GPD Win has a higher power consumption than the GPD XD, so using the same heatsink is probably a pretty bad idea.

My main point, though, was that they could've redesigned their keyboard with ease, and instead they decided not to listen to community input from the get go. I know they only used Indiegogo as an incredibly cheap alternative to a proper pre-order site, but they couldn't even keep the thin veneer of being community funded. It's just annoying.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Saber on April 29, 2016, 11:38:13 pm
My main point, though, was that they could've redesigned their keyboard with ease, and instead they decided not to listen to community input from the get go. I know they only used Indiegogo as an incredibly cheap alternative to a proper pre-order site, but they couldn't even keep the thin veneer of being community funded. It's just annoying.
It is frustrating but like many products the first is more or less a released prototype. The litmus test for GPD will be what they do after the Win hits the streets and consumers have had a chance to use them. Will constructive feedback be applied next term, or will it be summarily tossed to the third generation? It's a question with an answer a year in the making. Let's hope more positives imbibe the 2015 Edition. 8)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on April 30, 2016, 03:09:59 am
So it looks like GPD are exploring whether they can use the same liquid cooling heat pipe they use in some modern smart phones like the Galaxy S7.   You might remember I mentioned this as something they could possibly look into a long while back.   Anyway, it seems they are looking into putting a heat pipe into the GPD WIN. Not sure where it would lead to other than the aluminium heat plate.  Would have thought though, that these things work better if they lead the heat to something metal that's away from the SoC .  Like a metal casing that's open to the outside or a metal heat sink away from the SoC that's getting air flow from a fan.

See here:  http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4514871661


(https://nexusupdate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/galaxy-s7-liquid-cooling-samsung-1000x561-690x460.png)

Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: maarten12100 on May 01, 2016, 01:55:01 am
So it looks like GPD are exploring whether they can use the same liquid cooling heat pipe they use in some modern smart phones like the Galaxy S7.
Heat pipes are only useful for effectively moving energy away since they operate by evap and condens in a very specific range. A better solution that a pipe is the flat vapour chamber.
Those vapour chamber designs could provide a solution but in general they aren't cheap they will add an easy 20 dollars to the BOM. What you will get in return is a very even temperature profile since energy can flow into all sections very fast.

I'm myself more concerned with the key mapping in a windows environment. One of the great things about the GPD XD is that emulators were easily mapped even touch screen games were easily mapped to the controls with the software that came with it. The GPD XD did this incredibly well.

Windows however is a pain playing emulation games with a controller whether it is Dolpin, PPSSPP or PCSX2 it is a pain every time. Actually so much that it is usually less cumbersome to just use the actual console. (I no longer have a working PSP nor PS2 both are broken)

Another major concern is how usable windows will be on such a tiny screen. I've tried remote desktop streaming and both at low as well as high DPI it was completely unusable on the GPD XD. The GPD Win will have a similarly sized screen so I doubt this will work well.

I'm not sure how I feel about the keyboard I think the key spacing on my 2 in one tablet is already quite scarce (it's 10.1") besides this there is the key feedback which may or may not be good enough.

I think I'm going to still order one however because otherwise I will have to judge it by reviews again. The GPD XD didn't disappoint actually it was so very amazing everything did work out of the box only minor design flaws to me.
I don't really like the thumb sticks for example, they sometimes don't seem to respond well when I push them almost all the way but not quite into a corner.

Personally I would like to see the following upgrades worked into the GPD XD 2:
- LTE support

- 64 bit ARM SoC (Perhaps by that time AMD's Zen based ARM SoCs (K12?) will be ready) (or another Mediatek SoC that is fabbed on a solid 14nm process)

- Bigger internal memory (128GB standard would be a nice start)

But I'm not sure whether or not other people would want to pay extra for those. I would actually the GPD XD is pretty good for it's price and I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra to make it even better.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 01, 2016, 02:16:53 am
I'd be amazed if the XD2 used anything but the RK3399 which is a 64 bit ARM SOC.

As for the keys on the WIN, they pretty much have gone for the same keys you find on one of those slider keyboards.   
I have two of them, the tactile feedback is good. They are good to type on.  As for spacing, since the keys are small and close together, you find that you need to focus on hitting the centers of the keys, otherwise you can easily hit two keys at once.   About 5 minutes of practice though , and you are good.

The biggest problem with the keyboard IMO (and many others) is the letter keys are shifted to the left.  This will mean that you will be typing with one thumb pretty much, as all but 4 keys are on the left side of the WIN.

All but the K, L, O and P keys are on the left side , I showed in this image a long while back how it will be an issue  -> http://i.imgur.com/3fcWwao.jpg

Unfortunately the picture GPD showed of the GPD WIN with keyboard labels printed brought home the issue I have been mentioning. Look at the pic below that GPD posted, you can clearly see the issue I truied to convey all that time ago. The center of the device is the left edge of the K key. It's going to be a stretch (literally) to even be able to hit the space bar with your right thumb. The sad thing is, if they had of moved the right columns of keys to the left side. That would center the keyboard nicely. I'm still dumb founded they didn't make that change, or why they didn't catch the issue themselves


(http://forum.hkepc.net/month_1604/1604221723c23d23075b3eb912.jpg)



Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: shinkamui on May 01, 2016, 08:28:45 am
Super unfortunate they refuse to change the l3/r3 layout, even putting them on the top of that stack would be a huge difference maker.  The mouse keyboard toggle was the deciding factor keeping me from preordering.  Frankly, its a compelete wasted opportunity if they're going to disable all the gamepad functionality and not provide any kind of custom button mapping for keyboard/mouse games in that mode.  If performance is solid with reviews, its still a viable emulation platform, but to be fair, Im definitely not paying 500$ for a device with so many compromises, especially when the parted cost isn't even close to that number.  All things being equal, Im a lot more likely to pick up whatever device nvidia releases later this year, or even the JXD k1 based handheld over this at half the price.  With intel's withdraw from the ultra mobile chip market, the future is bleak for low power targeted x86 games and software.  I guess everything is going to come down to timing, I will absolutely buy the nvidia product if it releases before this does, otherwise its final offer price will decide if gpd or jxd gets my money.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 01, 2016, 09:50:00 am
Don't be surprised if Nvidia pull out of the mobile SOC market as well.  They threatened to do so before. Now that their market for their SOCs has shrunk to being almost non existent (just the Shield TV and Pixel C for the X1), the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: maarten12100 on May 01, 2016, 11:49:58 am
I'd be amazed if the XD2 used anything but the RK3399 which is a 64 bit ARM SOC.
I looked up this Rock chip chip A72 cores so that would be amazing. Bigger high IPC cores is great for emulation and the clocks are also high apparently ~2.0 GHz being listed. What seems a bit disappointing is there is no mention of DX12 support though with only 2 cores it may not be necessary. (I would rather still have it supported)
Rockchip themselves don't mention a node on which the SoC is going to be fabbed I personally think a 16nm TSMC node or a 14nm Samsung/GF node perhaps. They will decide what they want in a node density, cost, leakage, yield etc etc.

I'm quite sure such a chip will easily bring us into Dolphin (NGC titles) territory. (even more reason for them to make the internal memory bigger as GC games are easy 1GB+)

As for the keys on the WIN, they pretty much have gone for the same keys you find on one of those slider keyboards.   
I have two of them, the tactile feedback is good. They are good to type on.  As for spacing, since the keys are small and close together, you find that you need to focus on hitting the centers of the keys, otherwise you can easily hit two keys at once.   About 5 minutes of practice though , and you are good.

The biggest problem with the keyboard IMO (and many others) is the letter keys are shifted to the left.  This will mean that you will be typing with one thumb pretty much, as all but 4 keys are on the left side of the WIN.

All but the K, L, O and P keys are on the left side , I showed in this image a long while back how it will be an issue  -> http://i.imgur.com/3fcWwao.jpg

Unfortunately the picture GPD showed of the GPD WIN with keyboard labels printed brought home the issue I have been mentioning. Look at the pic below that GPD posted, you can clearly see the issue I truied to convey all that time ago. The center of the device is the left edge of the K key. It's going to be a stretch (literally) to even be able to hit the space bar with your right thumb. The sad thing is, if they had of moved the right columns of keys to the left side. That would center the keyboard nicely. I'm still dumb founded they didn't make that change, or why they didn't catch the issue themselves
I don't see me typing on this thing a lot the arduino software for example is already completely unusable on a 10.1 display even with all kinds of settings adjusted on an even smaller display with a even smaller keyboard it's going to be just not possible.

I saw the picture posted with the line across the center of the device and the two thumbs. Comparing to the GPD XD which is similar size it seems like a major stretch for the left thumb. They could've perhaps used the center colum for not so important keys and some spacing on both sides. That way you would have 2 equally sized blocks containing all the letter that can be operated with both thumbs.

Yeah I caught up with the discussion with Kendy some notion of shell strength which I think it total baloney. Reviewers are probably going to trash the current keyboard design so it really is an absurd choice to keep it as is.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 01, 2016, 12:04:10 pm
Well the Pandora is a similar beast, and lots of people use it to type on. The Pyra which is the Pandoras successor which went on Pre-order today, will have a similar screen to the WIN. I guess it depends on font size and resolution etc you use.

I just saw that after only 12 hours , the Pyra already has about 250 Pre-orders.  It's flying .
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: maarten12100 on May 01, 2016, 12:13:41 pm
Well the Pandora is a similar beast, and lots of people use it to type on. The Pyra which is the Pandoras successor which went on Pre-order today, will have a similar screen to the WIN. I guess it depends on font size and resolution etc you use.

I just saw that after only 12 hours , the Pyra already has about 250 Pre-orders.  It's flying .
The keyboard on the Pyra is beautiful. Large spacing and backlit what more can you want.

However the Pyra isn't really for me it's not strong enough and it's quite bulky.
Removable battery and all those expansion options along with the ability to swap the SoC at some point sound so very great. However I wish they had put in a more powerful SoC from the beginning. (probably linux support is better with this?)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 01, 2016, 12:19:21 pm
I think three things swayed ED to the OMAP 5.

1)  The Pandora used a OMAP SOC also, so they had an existing relationship/contacts with Texas Instruments.

2)  Linux support

3)  They supposedly had trouble finding other ARM suppliers that could provide small quantities ie small MOQs

Still, given all that and how expensive the Pyra is, the Pyra Pre-order so far is going 10 times better than the WIN Indiegogo did at the same time. Mainly due IMO to the 2 year build up to the Pyra pre-order and the large community following carried over from the Pandora.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: dkabot on May 01, 2016, 03:43:31 pm
With intel's withdraw from the ultra mobile chip market, the future is bleak for low power targeted x86 games and software.

Has there been any source of Intel leaving the market entirely?
I've only seen the two sources linked in this thread: One has comments saying "the other one is actually accurate, calm down" and the other says only smartphone SoCs are discontinued. Tablet and up are still going on (and last I checked this was "tablet" level here).
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Berryal on May 01, 2016, 08:10:32 pm
I think they definitely listened to community feedback. The things they didn't do much to change was things they seemed to imply were out of their hands, keyboard layout etc.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MOFO on May 02, 2016, 02:58:34 pm
I think they definitely listened to community feedback. The things they didn't do much to change was things they seemed to imply were out of their hands, keyboard layout etc.



They listened to some feed back but not some very important ones, they could have done a much better job.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: masterofstuff124 on May 05, 2016, 12:16:24 am
I feel like GPD have never played a video game in their life. how is that placement of L3 R3 acceptable? wtf am I supposed to use those for? so many games that would pre map to those buttons are now rendered unplayable until I completly re map the game. Honestly I would buy the device at 300 in its current state at launch. but that was only the pre order price. They wanted me to pre order before they even had a working device? renders! thats it. no actual demo's; capabilities. batt life, screen type, cooling capabilities. How crazy is that. They sold people on nothing. and now they are cobbling together something. Im expecting this device to be throtteld out the ass. Its gonna get very Hot. and 3 hour battery life. Even if this device is PERFECT. i will not buy it for $500. its not worth that... But I could have gotten it at $300 if I would have backed a non existent product. its fucking insane. I dont understand you GPD.i dont think you care to understand us.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on May 05, 2016, 04:44:53 am
You are right L3 and R3 are in terrible locations and completely useless when you think about it, this is not the only problem with the keyboard either.

It would have been much better with any of the proposed community keyboard layouts but they stated that the layout was fixed/ couldn't be changed.

The whole indigogo campaign wasn't very well put together but I do believe they have a good company and have tried to gather our input in English forums even though there is an obvious language barrier.

They sold people on the product they intended to make , a product that they seem passionate about with the declaration that they will release this device even if they didn't get the funding they were looking for.

GPD is known as the company that can come up with an idea and 6 months later release a completed device so I wouldn't be too concerned about their ability to achieve this.

This device is a UMPC and not just a mobile gaming device , even the eeepc released by Asus 8 years ago sold for $500 and that was a poorly underpowered device upon release.

I wouldn't worry about heating unless you plan on pushing this device to its absolute limits for extended periods of time, I have used my co-workers tablet which has the same chipset, much thinner and while it did throttle when gaming it didn't get overly hot while playing gaming for a couple hours.

Compared the other UMPC devices on the market like the Pyra , OQO , Sony UX , it is the cheapest and most powerful.

If you plan on getting this device then get it to play classic old windows games like Farcry , Morrowind , Deus Ex , or any PC game from 2007 and earlier.



Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MOFO on May 05, 2016, 06:05:48 am
What tablet did you use with the same chipset?
Just wondering to see if I could look up some benchmarks or game vids to see what we might expect.
Thanks.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MOFO on May 05, 2016, 06:06:11 am
sorry double post  :-[
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DiegoSLTS on May 05, 2016, 03:29:01 pm
I'm really interested in this, but I want to know more before buying. I have lots of Steam games I'd like to play on the go and want to see if they run without problems.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on May 05, 2016, 05:40:33 pm
What tablet did you use with the same chipset?
Just wondering to see if I could look up some benchmarks or game vids to see what we might expect.
Thanks.

Telcast x98 Pro
It's actually using the lower powered z8500 but it gives a good look at the gaming potential, I wouldn't expect much more out of the z8550 really.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 06, 2016, 01:00:54 am
My biggest concern that I have been thinking about for a while now is Malware.   I've been fighting a losing battle against malware on my PC for a while.   And I have been thinking about what impact malweare would have on the WIN.

For example, we all know that anti malware apps take a piece out of your systems performance.  I wonder how much of a performance issue running anti malware on the WIN will be.   Of course if you get malware on it , thats going to be bad.   

It's the one thing I hate about Windows.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DarkSki on May 06, 2016, 03:12:48 am
A valid concern here and there's no real fix for it really.

I plan to use the anti malware / virus program with the lowest overhead, it may take a while to figure out what is lightweight but works

I was using MalwareBytes on my OQO which only has a single core 1.6 GHz and 512 MB RAM running Windows 7, this caused Morrowind to slow down by abit 5 frame hit but didn't seem to affect other lower requirement games
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: vcoleiro1 on May 06, 2016, 03:46:50 am
Kendy just made another Indiegogo update which shows the WIN Pcb now populated



(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1462499613/vzkqvrynoqsx8rxuemxi.jpg)

(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1462499628/kjutowuqsryukrfsrsib.jpg)
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Feanor on May 06, 2016, 10:43:04 am
Wow this could be the real definitive handled gaming console but i'll wait and read rev before the purchase i still have doubts on how win 10 will run on a 5,5" screen and how well the keyboard and buttons will be realized. Right now i'm fully satisfied with the GPD XD but a handled console running Win OS would be a dream come true.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MOFO on May 06, 2016, 11:09:57 am
I also think W10 on such a small screen will be problematic, especially reading text and basic information when gaming.
PC games were never made to be played on such a small screen, I hope I'm wrong but I do see it as a potential problem.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: maarten12100 on May 06, 2016, 11:21:38 am
I also think W10 on such a small screen will be problematic, especially reading text and basic information when gaming.
PC games were never made to be played on such a small screen, I hope I'm wrong but I do see it as a potential problem.
If you have a GPD XD you can test with a desktop viewer. At every DPI setting it is quite bad. I think game text will be as bad :(
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: notime2d8 on May 06, 2016, 02:42:06 pm
I wonder if those are programming pins on the back? If so, that may be the accessible spot for USB for mods...may not actually have space though.

And you can tweak everything in windows like fonts, resolution, and dpi. I'm sure we can tweak it to find something that works....If not "windows magnifier" to the rescue!!!!  8) 
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: CampGareth on May 06, 2016, 09:26:06 pm
I also think W10 on such a small screen will be problematic, especially reading text and basic information when gaming.
PC games were never made to be played on such a small screen, I hope I'm wrong but I do see it as a potential problem.

It depends on the game I think, but yes default DPI setting will need a boost. Just to see the problem in action I loaded up Rocket League at 1280x720 and took a screenshot, then pulled that up on my 5.4" phone. Settings menu so plenty of text, perhaps a little bigger than usual for Windows. It was a little dense but fine really, entirely readable held at arms length.

Any particular games you see as being problematic?
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: MacGnG on May 07, 2016, 03:24:55 am
i backed it right away when i saw it cause the the xd 64gb is so nice i trust they will do a good job. i really doubt its gonna be ready right on time, but hopefully by the holiday season.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - P
Post by: MOFO on May 08, 2016, 06:51:38 am
I also think W10 on such a small screen will be problematic, especially reading text and basic information when gaming.
PC games were never made to be played on such a small screen, I hope I'm wrong but I do see it as a potential problem.

It depends on the game I think, but yes default DPI setting will need a boost. Just to see the problem in action I loaded up Rocket League at 1280x720 and took a screenshot, then pulled that up on my 5.4" phone. Settings menu so plenty of text, perhaps a little bigger than usual for Windows. It was a little dense but fine really, entirely readable held at arms length.

Any particular games you see as being problematic?

Well here's the thing I have a last gen Teclast air 3G tablet with the Z3736F SOC, it's a pretty good tablet but playing PC games was a bit of a challenge balancing performance (trying to get around 30FPS) and still leaving it at a decent screen res, yeah 720p looks fine but many times game play was lagging and stuttered even at the lowest settings, I totally get comparing the older chipset with the newer is a bit silly but some games that I tried at 800x600 were playable at full screen but still reading text was a bit of a challenge even on a much bigger screen, one game in particular was Darksiders 2 and while text was still readable it looked blurry as hell and I can imagine will be magnified on a much smaller screen.
I
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: barai on May 08, 2016, 07:13:51 am
What is interesting to see is the number of people only just now finding out about the gpd win and backing it.
Maybe the pyra gave it some extra exposure.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: Berryal on June 06, 2016, 01:32:30 pm
My biggest concern that I have been thinking about for a while now is Malware.   I've been fighting a losing battle against malware on my PC for a while.   And I have been thinking about what impact malweare would have on the WIN.

For example, we all know that anti malware apps take a piece out of your systems performance.  I wonder how much of a performance issue running anti malware on the WIN will be.   Of course if you get malware on it , thats going to be bad.   

It's the one thing I hate about Windows.
Honestly I don't see the need of antimalware on Windows 10 and above. I've never used any on mine besides window defender and even then I turn it off a lot, and have never had any problems besides once bing became my homepage and I couldn't change it. No big deal.

Personally I definitely won't use any anti-malware on the gpd win.

Also: I'm super excited for this thing! Bring on the portable platforming goodness, my BODY IS READY.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: dubsmachine on June 06, 2016, 03:45:22 pm
At first I didn't back it but after I played with my XD for a few days and saw the progress I jumped on board.

I love my XD but don't like relying on Android and all the issues with crashes on the emulators.
I decided to go for this because there are more options for Windows emulators and no play store to deal with.

I am concerned how it will feel in hand - will it all be too cramped and can the triggers be used easily.
The only issue I have with XD is that the L2 / R2 are pretty bad to try and use during a game.

Having a Teclast X98 Pro already I am sure that even if it uses the same chip it will be powerful to do what I need it to do but of course everyone wants the latest and fastest chip possible.

If this GPD Win can run Xbox / PS2 / Wii games it would be the only device I need for a long time.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: eragon2890 on June 06, 2016, 05:20:44 pm
At first I didn't back it but after I played with my XD for a few days and saw the progress I jumped on board.

I love my XD but don't like relying on Android and all the issues with crashes on the emulators.
I decided to go for this because there are more options for Windows emulators and no play store to deal with.

I am concerned how it will feel in hand - will it all be too cramped and can the triggers be used easily.
The only issue I have with XD is that the L2 / R2 are pretty bad to try and use during a game.

Having a Teclast X98 Pro already I am sure that even if it uses the same chip it will be powerful to do what I need it to do but of course everyone wants the latest and fastest chip possible.

If this GPD Win can run Xbox / PS2 / Wii games it would be the only device I need for a long time.

*Sound of Zelda treasure chest opening* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROOTSc1YaJA

(because it's that epic)

so yes, it runs gamecube and wii games or at least soem of them pretty much perfectly with the new dolphin dx12 backend. That is one the teclast x98 pro, so that also means, that if you impatient, you can play them rigth now if you buy an ipego or something since you already have one~
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: DiegoSLTS on June 07, 2016, 03:58:36 pm
I voted that I'll wait for reviews once it launches, but I'm getting more and more excited about it. Just knowing it'll probably run most of my steam games (most are not modern AAA games) and that I may be able to code on it is enough for me to want one. And now that I see it would probably play GC and PS2 games... Too bad I didn't had the 300 dollars to back it up on Kickstarter. I'll have to wait a lot to have the ~500 dollars for the retail units, so I guess I'll be watching reviews before buying anyway.
Title: Re: GPD WIN - Poll
Post by: xdplus fanatic-oopsy on June 07, 2016, 04:01:38 pm
the retail units seem to be pre-ordering for $325-330... not $500 as originally stated on their internet campaign.