Author Topic: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO  (Read 1202255 times)

Deen0X

  • Posts: 1702
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #260 on: March 10, 2016, 09:02:44 pm »
First of all, the "GUIDE" button IS NOT the same as WINDOWS key

i don?t understand why you don?t want to add a standard XInput button.

if you use gamepads without this button, don?t means this is right or is the common.

based on what you posted i can give to you another example

remove the Windows key of the keyboard.

now, for windows start menu, press CTRL+ESC

you can do the same, right?
then, why you need the Windows key on the keyboard?

oh, yes, there are some shortcuts.
win+e for explorer... but you can run this from start menu
win+r for run... the same... from start menu you can do this

in fact, the WIN key is not needed really. simply, there are some shortucts for easy access and management.

on Steam we can found a similar usage.
there are some shortcuts that need the "GUIDE" button:
steam overlay (keep GUIDE press)
Capture screen (GUIDE + RT)
etc. (i don?t remember more now)

then following this sense, if you don?t want to add the GUIDE button on the gamepad, within the same think you don?t want to add WIN key on keyboard. right?

Deen0X

  • Posts: 1702
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #261 on: March 10, 2016, 09:07:09 pm »
note: for users with gamepad without guide button, the shortcut for overlay steam page is:
SHIFT+TAB (is the same as pressing GUIDE button)... a most similar example than CTRL+ESC for start menu (win key)

but.. on this keyboard, this VERY LITTLE AND NON BALANCED keyboard, you must press SHIFT + TAB on the right side of the device, with two hands (because is hard to use a single hand for this key combo)... and i think is VERY UNCOMFORTABLE to get the overlay steam page using this way...

Saber

  • Posts: 350
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #262 on: March 10, 2016, 09:16:03 pm »
Thank you for the information guys. :)

Here's the corrected layout with the Guide "button":
http://i.imgur.com/T5A4sCl.png


Rendlemon, when you get a chance could you please delete just the old picture of the layout in your previous quoted posts. Thanks. ;D
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:22:33 pm by Saber »

vcoleiro1

  • Posts: 1720
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #263 on: March 10, 2016, 09:23:42 pm »
@Saber

The problem Saber is that I had a layout very similar to what you posted above . Keys on top including L3/R3.  GPD saw it, Misternone posted it.  GPD even went as far acknowledging the keyboard not being centered is an issue and should be centered. 

That all said, Kendy came back and said they are not making KB changes, it's clear they have no interest in fixing the major issues.  There are many ways the keyboard centering etc issues could be fixed.  Also , some suggestions we have posted don't require any physical changes - ie like secondary key labels. But there is one startling observation here, do you see GPD coming back with any suggestions - No.  Let's be honest here, why are we coming up with alternatives and not them. Think about it.  ie they just don't give a shit.

P.S  For records sake I actually said the Keyboard Home key rather than the Windows key.  But that's all water under the bridge as the guide key had been added in my layout (and yours now Saber) anyway.  Just wanted to clear that up though
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:31:12 pm by vcoleiro1 »

Deen0X

  • Posts: 1702
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #264 on: March 10, 2016, 09:26:07 pm »
i think GUIDE button MUST be a single button, no Function button

now, for do a screenshot, you must use Fn+Enter+RT

and... if you need to keep pressed the GUIDE button? (some interfaces need to keep pressed this button for few seconds)


  • Posts: 565
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #265 on: March 10, 2016, 09:28:23 pm »
i think GUIDE button MUST be a single button, no Function button

now, for do a screenshot, you must use Fn+Enter+RT

and... if you need to keep pressed the GUIDE button? (some interfaces need to keep pressed this button for few seconds)
Just make the Fn key an F-lock key that Victor Coleiro proposed, and you're done.

Also, I agree with Victor that all of this is really futile. I think I may have even stated it earlier.

Deen0X

  • Posts: 1702
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #266 on: March 10, 2016, 09:31:10 pm »
@Saber

this is my suggestion for your layout.



well, sorry, i do a mistake
i want to locate the context menu key on the numlock key
i think this device really don?t need a numkey button
(or maybe the numkey can be a Fn Key)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:35:52 pm by Deen0X »

Deen0X

  • Posts: 1702
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #267 on: March 10, 2016, 09:34:22 pm »
and maybe futile, but if we don?t do noise, then GPD will think they're doing all right... and new users may not realize on what we are discussing and they accept the device with their design fails.

we need to keep discussing. yes, is so pity that GPD really will not consider what we are talking here, but maybe there are others that are looking here, and taking ideas... and who knows?


Saber

  • Posts: 350
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #268 on: March 10, 2016, 09:34:31 pm »
@Saber

The problem Saber is that I had a layout very similar to what you posted above . Keys on top including L3/R3.  GPD saw it, Misternone posted it.  GPD even went as far acknowledging the keyboard not being centered is an issue and should be centered. 

That all said, Kendy came back and said they are not making KB changes, it's clear they have no interest in fixing the major issues.  There are many ways the keyboard centering etc issues could be fixed.  But there is one startling observation here, do you see GPD coming back with any suggestions - no.  Let's be honest here, why are we coming up with alternatives and not them. Think about it.  ie they just don't give a shit.
I know they care little about what we say but still I want to try. If MisterNone ever comes back here maybe he can repost the newest layout on Baidu. The new one I did is not earth shatteringly different from the stupidity their forcing us to accept. Even so, maybe the mistake they are making in their Win layout will get them to change for the next time. 

Saber

  • Posts: 350
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #269 on: March 10, 2016, 09:48:31 pm »
Just make the Fn key an F-lock key that Victor Coleiro proposed, and you're done.
I think F-lock is different than what was meant in Vic's proposal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Lock.
I know what we want here but I'm reluctant to change Fn's behavior. I'd actually rather remove the lower right Menu key and put it under Fn with Left Shift, and in it's place put a second Fn key for the right thumb. I tested whether I could press our solitary Fn key with my left thumb while concurrently pressing the right direction on the XD's Dpad with my right thumb, and while not perfect it was doable as they say. :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 09:50:52 pm by Saber »

vcoleiro1

  • Posts: 1720
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #270 on: March 10, 2016, 09:49:43 pm »
@Saber

MisterNone had posted this on Baidu which GPD techs saw:  http://i.imgur.com/CfmKtvA.jpg
They actually liked they LEDs and the doubling of key labels like for Pg Up etc.  But again , according to Kendy we can't have any of the suggestions any of us have ever posted.  Apparently as they said on Baidu, they have been getting our suggestions.  Part of my suggestions involved just double key lables which I know they can do, but Kendy just came back and said Nahhh for everything without any explanation what so ever or even acknowledging the other changes in my proposal that didn't require HW changes.  All I got was we cant do those layouts. To which I say cant do what exactly.

But as I said earlier, there must be a million ways to fix the keyboard centering, even if that means flipping it so that Both right columns are flipped so they are on the left side. (rather than just moving one of the columns) .  But ask yourself, do you see GPD making any suggestions - No.   They clearly don't give a shit.

The only way change is going to happen now, if at all, and lets face it , it's a long shot, is if the community rises as one to let them know its not ok.  ie gets their attention. 

And frankly, I'm not really prepared to do more work on the KB unless Kendy organsises a Q & A with the GPD techs here on this forum - with Kendy translating.  Otherwise we are just stabbing in the dark here on what can and cant be done.   
I must have asked for this three times already and have never even got a response.

I would suggest if people here  are concerned about he issues we have raised, then join me in asking Kendy to organise the Q & A. and keep voicing your concerns .  Until they start noticing us , which won't happen until they see numbers of us voicing concerns, then anything we say will be futile.
 


« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:27:56 pm by vcoleiro1 »

  • Posts: 565
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #271 on: March 10, 2016, 09:56:41 pm »
Victor, I'm really way passed it. They've already set a timetable, made the mold and ordered the PCBs. Not only that, their pre-order page states a clear-and-cut date - pushing the device back means they're likely to disappoint the already paying customers, which are apparently fine with that design.

So, yeah. I think it's just a lost cause, and has been one since the beginning.

vcoleiro1

  • Posts: 1720
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #272 on: March 10, 2016, 09:59:02 pm »
I don't think they have made the molds, if they had , they wouldn't have considered Deen0x's sketch at all. But I know they did.  By the way , at least they gave a reason they couldn't do Deen0x's layout. ie the thin strips of plastic involved would'nt work with the type of plastic they are using.

Saber

  • Posts: 350
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #273 on: March 10, 2016, 10:06:36 pm »
@Saber

this is my suggestion for your layout.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8ukLGQbPfy4/VuHncw0ybeI/AAAAAAAAXxA/zN6TrWYjs-E/s800-Ic42/Saber_B.png

well, sorry, i do a mistake
i want to locate the context menu key on the numlock key
i think this device really don?t need a numkey button
(or maybe the numkey can be a Fn Key)
It's not bad and I do sight where the inspiration is coming from. Some trepidation about having the power button in the bottom right edge, and relinquishing the place for NumLk. It's respectable though.

brushpicks11

  • Posts: 211
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #274 on: March 10, 2016, 10:10:07 pm »
Keyboard is not that big an issue for me honestly I think the keyboard layout can work considering we're not typing a bunch on it and more or less using it for additional controls with windows gaming.

The only thing that they seriously need to change like badly is the location of L3 R3. I have no idea how anyone will be able to play games that require L3 R3 which I've actually encountered quite often such as sprinting and other things if they just put those where they are on the XD then the keyboard layout I can live with

Saber

  • Posts: 350
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #275 on: March 10, 2016, 10:22:21 pm »
Vic, I think the Indiegogo is where the pressure should come from. I have kept a close eye on the comments there and I noticed whenever you or anyone else questioned their competence they'd respond with the generic "thanks for support" and "an important reference" cover. Public relations swaying is how they might begin to listen if the correct person from GPD is also watching the campaign, which I believe is at least one. On top of that, we can't be the only people here noticing the pledging has slowed considerably and that those "updates" are ineffective.

BTW, if anyone here who's a backer wants to post the layout to the Indiegogo comments, feel free to do so. :)
http://i.imgur.com/T5A4sCl.png
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:52:57 pm by Saber »

vcoleiro1

  • Posts: 1720
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #276 on: March 11, 2016, 12:47:26 am »
@Saber,

The barest minimum change that I know they can do is as below.  But I don't even hold any faith they will do that.  Even though it only involves switching the right columns (Both not one, so that there is still only two keyboard sections rather than three which they said is an issue) to the left side.

Anyway, if you haven't already, check out the poll going on here, every little thing that gets their attention helps I guess:
http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-devices/gpd-win-are-layout-issues-etc-stopping-you-from-backing-it-on-indiegogo/




Here are my preferences in order:

http://i.imgur.com/0vAdS5g.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/i4HTjxa.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/CfmKtvA.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/iXJbqBE.jpg, http://i.imgur.com/zKbQbDS.jpg
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 01:00:21 am by vcoleiro1 »

siegel17701

  • Posts: 265
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #277 on: March 11, 2016, 01:35:22 am »
I think people need to consider this. Let's say L3 is to sprint. With this layout you don't have to take your finger off the analog stick. I am one of those that is mostly fine with the layout.

AVahne

  • Posts: 570
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #278 on: March 11, 2016, 02:08:17 am »
Sigh, honestly there's no longer any point in trying to get a better keyboard. GPD says they can't do it for whatever bizarre reason, so that's that. Just let them release this product and let them take in all the negative feedback they will surely receive. Then hope there's enough positive feedback on all the other aspects and that they truly believe in a product like this for them to release a second generation that doesn't have clearly visible issues.
It's pretty clear at this point that the only feedback they wanted from us were just specs and ports, not actual usability.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 02:12:40 am by AVahne »

AVahne

  • Posts: 570
Re: GPD WIN on INDIEGOGO
« Reply #279 on: March 11, 2016, 02:11:50 am »
I think people need to consider this. Let's say L3 is to sprint. With this layout you don't have to take your finger off the analog stick. I am one of those that is mostly fine with the layout.
Thing is, you'll need to look away from the screen to find the L3 button and then carefully press it without pressing anything else since their keycaps are rather poorly designed.
And you're only thinking about L3. R3 is important to many games as well, and it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to use in a normal gaming situation.
For example, knifing is going to be a real pain in the butt.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 02:13:39 am by AVahne »

 

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