Author Topic: Dear GPD: will the Win 2 support selectable 50HZ / 60HZ refresh rate in Windows?  (Read 1457 times)

SMF (OP)

  • *
  • Posts: 18
Dear GPD,

Will the Win 2 support selectable 50HZ / 60HZ screen refresh display setting in Windows?

Here are 3 reasons why we need 50HZ screen refresh rate added:

  • The HDMI specs has both 50HZ and 60HZ modes: When using HDMI-out on the Win 2 while watching PAL (50Hz) movies and PAL emulated games the screen refresh will be synchronized between internal screen and HDMI out external screen (TV).
  • 50HZ is the European PAL standard; for accurate emulation (with VSYNC) of European PAL systems, like Commodore Amiga and Commodore 64, we need 50HZ display refresh
  • 20% less CPU load with VSYNC on. Steam and Windows games allow for display resolution configuration. Being able to choose [email protected] will lower CPU requirements by about 20% and VSYNC can still be used. This is very welcome for games that cannot achieve >60 fps but can achieve >50fps.

Please let us know whether it is technically possible to support 50HZ on the GPD Win 2.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 11:55:28 am by SMF »

RupeeClock

  • *
  • Posts: 199
The GPD Win 2 uses an Intel Core m3-7yY0, which features Intel HD Graphics 615.
Intel HD Graphics with their default drivers and sofware in general support both 50Hz and 60HZ video modes, so I imagine the GPD Win 2 should as well.
Although it's also a matter of manufacturer drivers and firmware in this case, but for graphics drivers I imagine that's pretty straight forward.

Faust

  • **
  • Posts: 520
I believe the 50HZ trick works only with the retro emulator, not with cemu right?

Envoy? de mon 6039Y en utilisant Tapatalk


SMF (OP)

  • *
  • Posts: 18
The GPD Win 2 uses an Intel Core m3-7yY0, which features Intel HD Graphics 615.
Intel HD Graphics with their default drivers and sofware in general support both 50Hz and 60HZ video modes, so I imagine the GPD Win 2 should as well.
Although it's also a matter of manufacturer drivers and firmware in this case, but for graphics drivers I imagine that's pretty straight forward.

This is exactly my worry, that GPD will have a firmware that is not compatible with the Intel feature and [email protected] will not be supported.

Hopefully someone at GPD will  read this topic and care to comment whether or not selectable 50HZ / 60HZ will be supported in the Win 2 or not.

I believe the 50HZ trick works only with the retro emulator, not with cemu right?

What is the "50HZ trick"?

skelton

  • *****
  • Posts: 6834
More than the firmware it depends on the panel Intel drivers suport 50 hz, but of the panel don't, it doesn't matter. Anyhow, I tried uae at 60 hz in RA and didn't notice big issues. I have an amiga 1200 at home, so I know the system. Winuae has improved a lot and works quite fine with 60 hz panels. I didn't test C64 though, It's not a system I am intererested in.
Retired

Faust

  • **
  • Posts: 520
The GPD Win 2 uses an Intel Core m3-7yY0, which features Intel HD Graphics 615.
Intel HD Graphics with their default drivers and sofware in general support both 50Hz and 60HZ video modes, so I imagine the GPD Win 2 should as well.
Although it's also a matter of manufacturer drivers and firmware in this case, but for graphics drivers I imagine that's pretty straight forward.

This is exactly my worry, that GPD will have a firmware that is not compatible with the Intel feature and [email protected] will not be supported.

Hopefully someone at GPD will  read this topic and care to comment whether or not selectable 50HZ / 60HZ will be supported in the Win 2 or not.

I believe the 50HZ trick works only with the retro emulator, not with cemu right?

What is the "50HZ trick"?
I mean if a game is 60 fps full-speed on 60Hz screen, would it still full-speed on 50Hz screen with 50 fps, like for emulator where Pal and NTSC have 60 fps ?

I'm not even sure it works like that, but in Cemu there isn't 50 Hz or 60 Hz option, so games requiring 60 fps will still require the 60 frames to be full-speed.

So technically if you force the screen to be on 50Hz while playing Cemu, would 50 fps works as full speed ?

Envoy? de mon 6039Y en utilisant Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:30:01 pm by Faust »

SMF (OP)

  • *
  • Posts: 18
More than the firmware it depends on the panel Intel drivers suport 50 hz, but of the panel don't, it doesn't matter. Anyhow, I tried uae at 60 hz in RA and didn't notice big issues. I have an amiga 1200 at home, so I know the system. Winuae has improved a lot and works quite fine with 60 hz panels. I didn't test C64 though, It's not a system I am intererested in.

First, thanks for giving it a go.

Unfortunately the "didn't notice big issues" is very different from "noticed accurate PAL 50Hz emulation". It is technically impossible to accurately emulate a PAL system on a 60Hz screenmode when VSYNC=ON.

With regards to your test. You didn't notice anything in Retroarch because it disables VSYNC when the refresh rate of the host differs by approx more than 2Hz from the emulated system (it does this without letting you know, it is determined by the "audio skew" feature in audio options). Your test was effectively with VSync=OFF.

I think your comment on Amiga / WinUAE will make real Amiga enthusiasts cringe (at least it did for me  ;) ). The crux is having VSYNC = ON. In WinUAE you need to turn "Low Latency VSync" ON in WinUAE display properties (it's in the list button, see attached picture). Do you have a real PAL (50Hz) 1200 to compare?  You'll notice that the video is being sped up by 20% in the emulation and the audio PITCH being raised by 20%. A big no no for any Amiga fan.

The Win 2 really needs a 1280x720 @ 50Hz screenmode for the very reasons given in the first post.





I mean if a game is 60 fps full-speed on 60Hz screen, would it still full-speed on 50Hz screen with 50 fps, like for emulator where Pal and NTSC have 60 fps ?

I'm not even sure it works like that, but in Cemu there isn't 50 Hz or 60 Hz option, so games requiring 60 fps will still require the 60 frames to be full-speed.

You would have to look for whether the emulator supports PAL/50Hz emulation. I don't think Cemu supports it. I'm not sure, but I think Dolphin (Wii emulator) has proper PAL support.

Nonetheless, when a system supports 60Hz games and your system is capable of running them at >60fps, then it's the preferable rate.

50Hz display refresh is needed mostly for accurate emulation of PAL games on systems that do not offer any USA/Japan NTSC counterparts. For example the Commodore Amiga (WinUAE), where 95% of the games were only released for the PAL 50Hz region. No NTSC counterpart to be found.
 

skelton

  • *****
  • Posts: 6834
My test was with vsync in Retroarch and refresh rate set manually at 50 hz....

and yeah, my AGA is 50 hz pal. When I say not noticeable issues, is because emulation is still far from perfect in any amiga emu. I always notice that I am using an emulator. but 99 percent of people will be ok with it. Of course, ultra amiga enthusiats maybe they don't find it good enough. I rarely emulate amiga on any system maybe because I am too used to use the main system.

Other emus allow vsync with PAL games without issues, I know that amiga is more special for that, but that is something the emulator should implement properly as other emus do. In this sense, win 2 is a Pc, and winuae will run as in any Pc that has a 60 hz panel.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:55:53 pm by skelton »
Retired

endre1952

  • *
  • Posts: 6
So, can the GPD Win 2 be forced to do 50hz with CRU?

kendyzhu777

  • *
  • Posts: 297
Win2 support output 1080P with 60Hz, 4K with 24Hz

 

Post a new topic