Dingoonity.org

GCW Zero => General => Topic started by: RodrigoCard on May 12, 2014, 03:03:57 am

Title: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 12, 2014, 03:03:57 am
I took the dust off my GCW zero this week to install the new firmware... and played some games here and there.... Man! This thing is great! But It really need some love...  :-[

How about a contest?

I would donate $100 for a prize pool and would help organizing it.
What you all think?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To mess with stuff here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 12, 2014, 03:50:19 am

A contest with an actual prize pool for new GCW-Zero apps?


SOUNDS AWESOME, been trying to ask for this all along.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: elwing on May 12, 2014, 07:51:45 am
The Zero definately needs that kind of love...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: howie_k on May 12, 2014, 08:10:23 am
Yep I am up for contributing also, great idea!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: surfi80 on May 12, 2014, 08:49:20 am
I am also willing to collaborate  :-\
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Kloppix on May 15, 2014, 12:14:08 pm
How about making a donation pool here in Dingoonity and making the contest after reaching a certain amount of money?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Beerman1138 on May 15, 2014, 03:15:44 pm
I'd be up for it, since I am not much of a programmer myself.  I'm not rich, but I'd contribute something. 
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: TimeDevouncer on May 15, 2014, 07:44:23 pm
Yes please, we need a good contest ;D

I'd like a emulators contest, but has already said it's not good idea...But if one day we get a good PSX emulator, I plan to help the project with a "little help" :P

Meanwhile, a games/apps competition would be great.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on May 16, 2014, 03:23:30 pm
It's a good idea. I felt like we were in a dead period, not many good releases, people are waiting for their gcw0, maybe things would start growing up.

I myself would like to code some new project for the GCW0, just busy with other stuff right now, but a contest would motivate me to start with something. I will even think about contributing a little bit to the prize.

I am more interested in apps/games category, although it wouldn't be bad to have an emulator category, maybe good stuff will come out of it. I remember we had this discussion before whether emulators or ports of games/emuls/apps should be allowed. For me, just have separate category for these.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Mookie7162 on May 16, 2014, 03:56:34 pm
I'll contribute to the prize as well
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: slaanesh on May 17, 2014, 05:34:46 am
I've got a big release coming soon!
Been working on if for a couple months now - lots of work gone into it.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: slapstick on May 17, 2014, 06:36:07 am
If we're talking about making stuff from scratch over some sort of time constraint, leafo recently added a game jam manager (http://itch.io/developers/game-jams) to itch.io (http://itch.io/)!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: sparkymark79 on May 17, 2014, 07:29:58 am
Arrrgh how soon Slaanesh I can't wait!!! :)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 19, 2014, 12:44:20 am
So, there are some interest. I added a poll to see your opinion of what should be valid entries.

1- Only Original software
2- New or ported software (including emulators)
3- Same as '2' but all in the same category
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: slapstick on May 19, 2014, 02:42:03 am
I think we should be able to submit both types of entries, but have them separated into "Games" "Applications" and "Ports" categories or something like that. I don't really care about prizes or "winning" or anything like that, but having a collection of content that was all made over a period of 2 weeks would be really cool!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: elwing on May 19, 2014, 06:17:52 am
assuming the goal would be to promote the GCW0 and not just do a compo I would avoid a "limited time" compo ala "game jam".
and I think both ported and new software are important but do not battle in the same leagues... I think it would be a good idea to have one "new software" and one "ported software" entry category...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: jxv on May 19, 2014, 06:48:26 am
A bounty for ports and/or emulators makes more sense.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Surkow on May 19, 2014, 10:09:50 am
A bounty for ports and/or emulators makes more sense.
A bounty for ports results in unmaintained projects. Just recompile a program and receive a bounty, while dedicated developers that worked on proper ports for much longer will miss out on any sort of reward. This is not a race. After a quick win these people are unlikely to actually be able to contribute anything to the emulator/program itself.

I'd suggest more of a focus on original software and games.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: toto on May 19, 2014, 02:31:00 pm
Need one more option:
-all the money, our eternal gratitude, a star on Hollywood Bvd, a place in heaven  and unlimited wine and meat in my restaurant here in Argentina, for a PSX emulator.  ;)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Yertle on May 19, 2014, 03:07:17 pm
This has been tried before and it went no where.... http://boards.dingoonity.org/gcw-general/fundraiser/
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Kloppix on May 19, 2014, 07:20:27 pm
This has been tried before and it went no where.... http://boards.dingoonity.org/gcw-general/fundraiser/

How about trying again?   ;)

I also agree with having two categories. However, I read the thread Yertle posted and I must say Zear has a strong point of view against ports & emulators.  He basically said it will lead to messy code, competition instead of collaboration and will not guarantee any updates in the future.

But what if we only accept open source emulators?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: pcercuei on May 19, 2014, 10:49:43 pm
The problem if ports are allowed (emus and games, I make no difference there) is that it is *much* less work to port something rather than developing from scratch, so it doesn't reward the people who worked hard, but people who just took the work of other people.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 20, 2014, 02:16:53 am
I preffer something like a game-jam but not so short in time and with original entries.

Ports can be difficult to judge. Even if you only accept a "good port" or something ported and "improved", how can you define what is "good" or "improved"?

Obviously if someone write a MIPS dynarec for a Mupen64 port, that would be instantaneously declared "good" by most people. But if someone port a game, make a few changes and release it? The amount of work cant be measured correctly. The "merit" of his/her work also is different. I know by my own experience on a past competition, that caused me headaches....  :'(

On the other hand, The Zero is awesome and really needs some love, some incentive.... that is why I created this topic. I know well done ports have a pretty good value and should be accounted in some way.

Maybe some other way to incentive?

The problem if ports are allowed (emus and games, I make no difference there) is that it is *much* less work to port something rather than developing from scratch, so it doesn't reward the people who worked hard, but people who just took the work of other people.

THIS!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Beerman1138 on May 20, 2014, 03:55:11 pm
So why not both?  Why not a contest for each -- with a larger reward and longer runtime for the original content?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Aeter on May 22, 2014, 01:20:21 pm
A bounty for ports and/or emulators makes more sense.
A bounty for ports results in unmaintained projects. Just recompile a program and receive a bounty, while dedicated developers that worked on proper ports for much longer will miss out on any sort of reward. This is not a race. After a quick win these people are unlikely to actually be able to contribute anything to the emulator/program itself.

I'd suggest more of a focus on original software and games.
I don't really agree with you here.

If emulators are ported by just recompiling, any sane person would not vote for that, because to earn something you need to put effort in it.
If a lot of effort is put into porting an emulator and it actually is being actively developed on, optimizing it for the GCW0 and such, I would definitely support it.

A good comparison is ReGBA vs. the guy ported MedNafen to GCW0.
ReGBA is being actively developed and has a bunch good and dedicated programmers working on it.
The MedNafen emulator is just a buggy and cheap port, that was created by recompiling it.

All I'm saying is, anyone can decide for themselves if a project is worth the effort or not and I think the general mass will vote for the projects that took hard work and effort to create instead of cheap ports.

And at all those who say effort and hard work can't be measured, I call bs.
If someone works hard and puts a lot of effort in it, they WILL show it by showing progress and updates to their projects frequently, because they want to show people that they work hard, show people what they can do, have accomplished and want to receive acclaim for their work (although they might not say that out loud, but when it comes down to it, everyone likes a little feather up their pooper every now and then).

Now all this talk about cheap ports, makes want to go have a drink. ;)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: surfi80 on May 22, 2014, 01:36:47 pm
should reward originality and detailed effort of dev  :-\
Habitus non facit monachum
Spartans!  quod est opus vestrum job! AUUUH AUUUH AUUUH
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Aeter on May 22, 2014, 01:58:49 pm
Habitus non facit monachum
Habitus, cucullus, why not both?
Might as well modernise the whole proverb and make it: Vestis non facunt homo.
(Yes these words are proper Latin and are not to be confused with their English swear word counterparts, it is kind of ironic how modernising an old Latin phrase causes this. Perhaps this is what's meant by Vulgar Latin).
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Dnilo on May 24, 2014, 02:22:40 am
I made a mistake and voted for 2, but I support 1.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Harteex on May 24, 2014, 09:30:46 pm
I think a problem is we still need someone trusted to volunteer to hold the price money. Someone not participating in the contest.

And some rules would have to be decided. Contest length? Voting, who can vote? Etc...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: jxv on May 25, 2014, 07:17:16 pm
I think a problem is we still need someone trusted to volunteer to hold the price money. Someone not participating in the contest.

So, we need someone who is trustworthy because s/he has been involved and won't submit an entry.
Maybe mth, Surkow, pcercuei, zear, Nebuleon, you, or a donor?
(I'm interested in competing, btw)

Quote
And some rules would have to be decided. Contest length? Voting, who can vote? Etc...

Contest length: 2-8 weeks depending on the requirements and/or rewards

Two categories of equal or non-equal weight:
- Donors
- And everybody else, including fellow competitors (who can't vote for themselves)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: zear on May 25, 2014, 08:32:19 pm
Maybe mth, Surkow, pcercuei, zear, Nebuleon, you, or a donor?
(I'm interested in competing, btw)
Nope, I'm interested in competing as well, as long as there are no emulators/ports in the same category as my homebrew entry.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Ziz on May 26, 2014, 01:20:45 pm
I would compete with something, too. ;)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 26, 2014, 02:08:20 pm

Yeah,

Emulators already dominate the system so we need more original content.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: surfi80 on May 26, 2014, 02:49:20 pm
many words but little action...if someone goes through with this, has my full support  8)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: ker on May 26, 2014, 02:54:29 pm
I think a problem is we still need someone trusted to volunteer to hold the price money. Someone not participating in the contest.

And some rules would have to be decided. Contest length? Voting, who can vote? Etc...

I offer myself to hold the price if you think I'm a reliable volunteer. This console needs a push.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: surfi80 on May 26, 2014, 03:06:20 pm
I think a problem is we still need someone trusted to volunteer to hold the price money. Someone not participating in the contest.

And some rules would have to be decided. Contest length? Voting, who can vote? Etc...

I offer myself to hold the price if you think I'm a reliable volunteer. This console needs a push.

ker, I will support whatever it takes and I am willing to donate
Si te escapas con la pasta voy a tu casa eh jajajaja ;D
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 26, 2014, 03:37:51 pm

Make the contest last from June through August and get that gamejam page up.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 27, 2014, 04:09:18 am
Emulators already dominate the system so we need more original content.

That is what I think! But I would also love any PC port that pushes the hardware limits... Just to impress other people and tell them to buy the Zero :)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 27, 2014, 04:13:21 am
So...

Only Original Games or Apps: 27.8%
Original Games/Apps, Ports and Emulators in separate categories: 66.7%
Anything, all in the same bucket 5.6% (that would never work anyway)

I've reached my goal. Know if the interest in a competition with only original games was high enough.

after seeing these results, I wonder if at least half the people who have ZERO care about original homebrews.  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: jxv on May 27, 2014, 07:47:13 am
So...

Only Original Games or Apps: 27.8%
Original Games/Apps, Ports and Emulators in separate categories: 66.7%
Anything, all in the same bucket 5.6% (that would never work anyway)

I've reached my goal. Know if the interest in a competition with only original games was high enough.

after seeing these results, I wonder if at least half the people who have ZERO care about original homebrews.  :-[ :-[ :-[
That's not what the poll asked or necessarily implied. And, it's okay to want both.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: grizzly on May 27, 2014, 03:03:28 pm
How about making ps1 emulator contest? It is much more important for many of us) i could donate 10$
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on May 27, 2014, 04:20:07 pm
How about making ps1 emulator contest? It is much more important for many of us) i could donate 10$

Wat! I guess this was just a joke?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: zear on May 27, 2014, 04:22:52 pm
How about making ps1 emulator contest? It is much more important for many of us) i could donate 10$
And have 5 shitty psx emulators. Great idea!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 27, 2014, 10:53:08 pm

I agree with zear.

Let's make gcw-zero make the android app store look like trash.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 28, 2014, 05:47:52 am
So...

Only Original Games or Apps: 27.8%
Original Games/Apps, Ports and Emulators in separate categories: 66.7%
Anything, all in the same bucket 5.6% (that would never work anyway)

I've reached my goal. Know if the interest in a competition with only original games was high enough.

after seeing these results, I wonder if at least half the people who have ZERO care about original homebrews.  :-[ :-[ :-[
That's not what the poll asked or necessarily implied. And, it's okay to want both.

Yeah, of course! It just cant be implied with this poll's results. That is why I am wondering....
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 28, 2014, 01:32:04 pm

There is no more emulators to make but, crappy PSX and N64 ones.

Let's not waste time on this contest with those...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Kloppix on May 28, 2014, 03:02:18 pm
I want to remind everyone that at the gp32spain/Wiz Contest of 2010 were also two categories.

After the contest about 20 new games and 3 new emulators were published, along an emulator that was significantly improved (by the original author). From the 3 new emulator, 2 emulated new devices. Of course, they also collected more than 3000$!

That's why I proposed collecting the money here in Dingonnity before launching the contest. A donate button will do the trick.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Ziz on May 28, 2014, 03:15:30 pm
I know, that some of the GCW emulator are "just" dirty recompilations of dingoonity emulator. So a good made amiga or atari st emulator would be a good entry. Or as mentioned a PSX emulator. I don't see, why this shouldn't be possible, I thought 3D acceleration is possible now?

However there were many contests with different categories, most of the time even more than two! But an application category may maybe not fit for the GCW as it fits for the Pandora. ;)

Just have a look at the RIOT digital competition or one of the plenty contest on the pandora board of the last few years.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Dnilo on May 28, 2014, 03:18:36 pm
Is there any 'official' update on this? Donation-wise, rule-wise, category-wise
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: ker on May 28, 2014, 03:23:21 pm
I want to remind everyone that at the gp32spain/Wiz Contest of 2010 were also two categories.

After the contest about 20 new games and 3 new emulators were published, along an emulator that was significantly improved (by the original author). From the 3 new emulator, 2 emulated new devices. Of course, they also collected more than 3000$!

That's why I proposed collecting the money here in Dingonnity before launching the contest. A donate button will do the trick.

I'll not be easy achieve that goal. I don't know how many GCW0 are out there, but I think they are not many.

I know, that some of the GCW emulator are "just" dirty recompilations of dingoonity emulator. So a good made amiga or atari st emulator would be a good entry. Or as mentioned a PSX emulator. I don't see, why this shouldn't be possible, I thought 3D acceleration is possible now?

However there were many contests with different categories, most of the time even more than two! But an application category may maybe not fit for the GCW as it fits for the Pandora. ;)

Just have a look at the RIOT digital competition or one of the plenty contest on the pandora board of the last few years.

I agree with you. Two categories: emulators and homebrew.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 28, 2014, 05:44:07 pm
No "Official" word yet. Just collecting opinions :)

I was thinking about TWO categories:

1- Original Software
2- Ported Software (Game or emulator ports made with minimum care and some other criteria, simple recompile wondnt be accepted)

And split the prizes between both.

What you think?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Beerman1138 on May 28, 2014, 06:09:27 pm
No "Official" word yet. Just collecting opinions :)

I was thinking about TWO categories:

1- Original Software
2- Ported Software (Game or emulator ports made with minimum care and some other criteria, simple recompile wondnt be accepted)

And split the prizes between both.

What you think?

Seconded. 
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 28, 2014, 07:05:13 pm

You should not be financially rewarded for making an emulator.

IT goes beyond the realm of ethics.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: dcervi on May 28, 2014, 08:16:47 pm

You should not be financially rewarded for making an emulator.

IT goes beyond the realm of ethics.

Why not?

I bought my GCW Zero mainly for it's emulation capabilities, and I'm almost sure it wouldn't brought the same amount of interest if there weren't emulators for it.

Emulating another machine usually requires a lot of work and code optimization, and most of the time, a good emulator allows hundreds of gaming gems from our chilhood to be played, sometimes giving even a better gaming experience than the original hardware (better battery life, portability...)

So, in my opinion, a good emulator deserves it's prize as any other game.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Dnilo on May 29, 2014, 03:50:32 am
I think original software should get a bigger reward than a port or emulator, like 70/30% respectively for each first place, or something close to that. Other than that should earn honorable mentions, period.

This way, anyone interested in creating something will aim high.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 29, 2014, 04:26:05 pm

There is a huge lack of original software on the zero, while emulators are flourishing.

Original Software needs a bailout, not the creation of psOne, n64 and dreamcast emulation....
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on May 29, 2014, 05:38:24 pm

There is a huge lack of original software on the zero, while emulators are flourishing.

Original Software needs a bailout, not the creation of psOne, n64 and dreamcast emulation....

I agree, but this poll shows interest in these emulators anyway, so....

I think original software should get a bigger reward than a port or emulator, like 70/30% respectively for each first place, or something close to that. Other than that should earn honorable mentions, period.

This way, anyone interested in creating something will aim high.

...this should be a good solution. Better rewards to new software. :)
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: AtariHERO on May 29, 2014, 07:39:54 pm

There is no more emulators to make but, crappy PSX and N64 ones.

Let's not waste time on this contest with those...

Amiga and Atari ST still are VERY green... :'(
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 29, 2014, 07:57:31 pm

The emulation happy people are gonna dev them anyway, the original apps; not so much...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Ziz on May 30, 2014, 09:22:33 am

The emulation happy people are gonna dev them anyway, the original apps; not so much...
Will they?
Emulators don't grew on trees!
There must be people with
At least the second point we can encourage!
Please, just have a look at the Pandora scene. After YEARS new Emulators came out:

Don't lie to yourself. Like the GP2X, the Caanoo, the Dingoo, the Wiz, the Pandora the GCW Zero is MADE for Emulators. Homebrew is funny and I myself produce it with pleasure. But the majority bought and uses this device for emulating older devices. ;)

Greetings
Ziz
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: theweirdn8 on May 30, 2014, 07:20:29 pm

We can go beyond Super Sayan as a community though...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on June 02, 2014, 12:02:12 pm
Good PS1 emulator should be possible. The Caanoo version that is 3 times slower than the GCW0, could play some 2d well enough and 3d slower but more playable speeds than in the past. The Pandora that might be 50% faster than GCW0 plays PS1 really fast. I think the machine can do it. But it needs work. A straight port is slow or doesn't work well. Maybe in few years.

But yeah, I am more interested for original homebrew in this compo, even though some well improved or new emulators would be a positive surprise.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: wepecko on June 03, 2014, 12:45:02 pm
I would also like to see the category for system enhancements. for example support for vibrations, overall joystick/mouse support through all application (which I miss most right now), sleep/hibernate function, finishing the HDMI connection etc...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Malleus on June 03, 2014, 03:51:10 pm
Good PS1 emulator should be possible.

CPU - 32-bit MIPS (33mhz)
I havent heard of any MIPS to MIPS recompiling emulation core except the one in Daedalus PSP, which prolly would need extensive work to make more portable. :/ I'd LOVE for it to happen though!
IF someone would manage to port it though.. wow!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Malleus on June 03, 2014, 03:58:40 pm
Good PS1 emulator should be possible.

CPU - 32-bit MIPS (33mhz)
I havent heard of any MIPS to MIPS recompiling emulation core except the one in Daedalus PSP (N64 emulator for PSP), which prolly would need extensive work to make portable and usable for PSX. :/ I'd LOVE for it to happen though!
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on June 06, 2014, 11:17:41 am
I am still curious how PSP pulls it off. People claim they have perfect PS1 and good N64. I have seen some videos that are fast, some are very slow, can't decide. And I have a PSP which I have still not unlocked (that's why I hate those commercial consoles for emulation and prefer openhandhelds, so many bother and didn't succeed and then didn't bother to unlock) so I cannot test. But PSP with it's 233Mhz processor (MIPS?) and GPU, how did they do it? Ok,. no GPU in some openhandhelds, but Caanoo with a good ARM at 533Mhz (and overclocked at 800) also has GPU, but the software rendering version of PCSXreARMed is much better but still not there. Is it a MIPS to MIPS dynarec on PSP that makes the magic? Or just good programming and people taking care of a good emul? Can't it be easilly ported?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on June 06, 2014, 11:18:05 am
I think my next post will be about the contest, sorry for being out of subject here.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on June 07, 2014, 03:41:54 pm
So... is someone interested in helping with the organization and holding the funds.....??
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: ker on June 07, 2014, 07:23:30 pm
So... is someone interested in helping with the organization and holding the funds.....??

I've never organized something similar, but I offer myself.
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Eliwood_san on June 19, 2014, 01:51:51 am
Any news about the contest?
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: RodrigoCard on June 19, 2014, 09:51:25 pm
no time till august

you can keep giving ideias here anyway...
Title: Re: How about a contest? To shake the things here.
Post by: Optimus on June 22, 2014, 05:52:31 pm
Well, at least I'll have more time after August to dedicate to GCW0.