Author Topic: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?  (Read 10172 times)

Atlantis_Risen (OP)

  • Posts: 535
Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« on: July 12, 2013, 08:15:32 pm »
The main reason I want a Zero is for superior emulation of 8 and 16 it consoles than I get with an android device.  However, I've been pleasantly surprised with the quality of emulation that I get from my JXD S5110.  Will I see an improvement in emulation now or in the near future if I get a Zero. 

I also would like to emulate: TG-16 CD and Sega CD, and CPS1, 2, and maybe 3 if possible. 

Thanks.

ruffnutts

  • Posts: 2654
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 08:25:39 pm »
The surface has not been scratched yet with the zero and yes you will see better emulation as time goes on
Not to mention its all free...

FBA already plays CPS 1 & 2 and picodrive plays SEGA CD and I'm sure TG-16 CD is coming

People need to remember the GCW Zero is in its infancy and is only going to get better and that's what makes it
All so fun... yes you can see I'm a fan lol

ruffnutts 8)

Seph817

  • Posts: 127
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 10:22:25 pm »
I have the Temper emulator. It was in the Releases section for a little while but, it's gone now. It plays TG 16 CD games. I guess they felt it wasn't ready and took it down until they get the repository up. I've been playing Ys Book I and II and it's running great!

I think when they get some final versions of stuff out, we're gonna have the best handheld out now for the 8 and 16 bit stuff. Yeah, you can have the most powerful processor or graphics on a handheld but, if you don't optimize the emulators and games for that, it's just a waste of money.

lemmywinks

  • Posts: 2866
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 10:35:39 pm »
If you're running Android then chances are you're already using much more up to date emulatiors than in OD, especially if you use Retroarch. Lower your expectations.
Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, PlayGo, RS-90, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket c/w screen mod, PSP Go
PC:
Medion Erazer, Toshiba Z20t, Dell Mini 9, Psion 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

Seph817

  • Posts: 127
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 10:55:29 pm »
How are these emulators outdated when they are being worked on and improved all the time? If they end up playing everything at full speed with no video or sound glitches, what more do you want them to do?

skelton

  • Posts: 6894
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 11:00:54 pm »
How are these emulators outdated when they are being worked on and improved all the time? If they end up playing everything at full speed with no video or sound glitches, what more do you want them to do?

Accuracy, it's not the same to port Snes9x 1.55 or use an old version with crappy sound.
Retired

Seph817

  • Posts: 127
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 11:11:10 pm »
So, these people aren't capable of eventually making these emulators accurate? I personally never cared too much about that. It's definitely not a bad thing. I guess I'm not much of an audiophile.  :) I don't wanna start any arguments. I just don't like that people are bashing this like it can never be more than it is. We've got some great developers working on this.

lemmywinks

  • Posts: 2866
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 11:26:24 pm »
Nobody is arguing or bashing anything, just being objective. It's important to consider the good points and bad points of each platform. Assuming emulation on the Zero will automatically be better than on other consoles for no other reason than "just because" is not exactly beneficial to anybody other than the company that makes the console. Ignoring problems doesn't help end users or the scene in general.

Also I suspect you actually do appreciate accuracy, some games you are currently playing would likely be broken without some degree of it.

I have said before that even though their forum presence here is obnoxious and arrogant the Retroarch guys should have been sent a free unit as soon as they expressed a slight interest. Getting those emulators working on the Zero would be fantastic for everyone who bought it.
Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, PlayGo, RS-90, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket c/w screen mod, PSP Go
PC:
Medion Erazer, Toshiba Z20t, Dell Mini 9, Psion 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

Surkow

  • * Administrator
  • Posts: 670
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 11:36:00 pm »
If you're running Android then chances are you're already using much more up to date emulatiors than in OD, especially if you use Retroarch. Lower your expectations.
From what I understand, porting Retroarch/libretro will not port the existing backends to MIPS. Using Retroarch on OD will not magically make better emulators appear. I know you mean Retroarch on Android, but that's also not completely true. Emulator authors porting applications to OD are using recent upstream versions for many emulators. But the latest version of SNES9x is focused on accuracy and will never be ported to embedded hardware the way it is now. gpSP on Android is not actively being developed at all.

Atlantis_Risen (OP)

  • Posts: 535
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 11:52:42 pm »
If you're running Android then chances are you're already using much more up to date emulatiors than in OD, especially if you use Retroarch. Lower your expectations.

I'm no fan of retroarch.  I get better performance using individual emulators than I did when I tried the retroarch cores.  Especially CPS2, it ran really slow if at all.  And getting RA to work at all was a nightmare compared to the other emulators.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 11:55:13 pm by Atlantis_Risen »

SNESFAN

  • Guest
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 02:22:27 am »
Accuracy costs performance generally speaking.

There are some weird exceptions like pcsx rearmed that is mostly coded with ancient spells and hexes to get it to the level of most accurate and best performing psx emulator ever.

Awakened

  • Posts: 96
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 04:33:16 am »
If you're running Android then chances are you're already using much more up to date emulatiors than in OD, especially if you use Retroarch. Lower your expectations.

I'm no fan of retroarch.  I get better performance using individual emulators than I did when I tried the retroarch cores.  Especially CPS2, it ran really slow if at all.  And getting RA to work at all was a nightmare compared to the other emulators.
It's pretty incredible on PC and iOS. On PC it's a bit hard to setup, at least the way I did it with several configs, but works seamlessly with frontends, launching in windowed fullscreen. It's nice to be able to use BSNES and Nestopia in libretro core form, since the stand alone versions of those emulators have annoyances (input lag in Nestopia, ROM folders spamming my Roaming folder with Higan). I can put my saves, firmware and savestates wherever I want. And everything is simplified vs. having so many individual emulators to keep track of when looking for updates. In general on Windows is runs pretty well; I can use everything at fullspeed except BSNES and Mednafen-PSX on my oldest PC, which has a meager Athlon XP running at 2Ghz and a Geforce 6200. I do have to turn off shaders and the input lag reducing hard sync for that PC though.

I'm not really interested in using it for arcade stuff on PC since MAME is more accurate than FBA and supports so many more games. I tried a Neogeo game on the iOS version and it ran fullspeed, but I forget if I tested any CPS2 games or not.

On iOS it has a simple to use native cocoa based UI. You just have to know where to put ROMs and firmware for that port, then select a ROM and core to emulate it and go. I had a pretty easy time mapping inputs to my iControlPad too (though the input lag with that pad still sucks). Unfortunately I can't get fullspeed on SuperFX games or GBA, but everything else runs great on my 4s. Supposedly A6 powered devices like the iPhone 5 are fast enough for SuperFX and GBA.

I'm sure we'll get some great emulators for the Zero in time regardless. It'll be interesting to see how much accuracy can be squeezed out of the device while maintaining fullspeed. It'd be cool if we could run Mottzilla's BS Zelda patch, for example, which requires decently accurate timing to work. I can only run it properly in SNES9x 1.53, SNES9x-Next and BSNES Balanced or Accuracy (the ingame timer goes crazy and ends the game in BSNES Performance, surprisingly).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 04:40:12 am by Awakened »

Seph817

  • Posts: 127
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 03:18:25 pm »
Nobody is arguing or bashing anything, just being objective. It's important to consider the good points and bad points of each platform. Assuming emulation on the Zero will automatically be better than on other consoles for no other reason than "just because" is not exactly beneficial to anybody other than the company that makes the console. Ignoring problems doesn't help end users or the scene in general.

Also I suspect you actually do appreciate accuracy, some games you are currently playing would likely be broken without some degree of it.
I guess I do care about accuracy somewhat. Haha :) I definitely like games that aren't broken. I don't assume the emulators could be better without basis. I think they'll be better because of the awesome people that are working on it. They've already shown some good work. They definitely still need work but, I bought this knowing I would have to wait a little while to get better emulation. I try to help point out problems when I find them. Without a doubt, some of the best emulation is on PC. It's a pretty big task to make this stuff run well on something so low powered as the Zero. Low powered compared to most PCs, of course. I do like some of the Android handhelds but, I think the Zero has an awesome community. That's a big reason I picked it.

I have said before that even though their forum presence here is obnoxious and arrogant the Retroarch guys should have been sent a free unit as soon as they expressed a slight interest. Getting those emulators working on the Zero would be fantastic for everyone who bought it.
I would love for all the developers of emulation and open source stuff to get a Zero. That just makes it way more awesome. I think if they'd still be interested and could conduct themselves a little better, the Retroarch guys should still get a Zero. If it could bring more old games to more people, I say we need it.

the_gama

  • Posts: 155
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 03:46:40 am »
I also would like to see a retroarch port for the zero (an official or unnofficial one).  I hope the gcw0 team reconsider sending the retroarch guys a unit, or maybe someone with a frankenzero would like to donate it to them? 

The main reasons for me to use retroarch in android is because it's completely free, it offers a unified frontend for all emulators, and it's becoming a very popular and complex project.

I know squarepusher was a bit rude here, but I really like his (the project) philosophy. I always disliked people making money in the android market using someone elses work. It's sad the way the other thread ended, this isn't about who is a better programmer, or what port is better.  It is for the sake of the console, we should aim to port any opensource project out there ;).

I would do the port myself, but I took a look at the repo and to be honest, it is a big task ;).
There are already some SDL drivers so it may not be that difficult, but I'm not sure.

I will start with a little project for now he he.

lemmywinks

  • Posts: 2866
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 09:49:10 pm »
I think there was some rather narcissistic trolling from squarepusher in that thread though, have a look at his bizarre self commentary on this link:
http://pastebin.com/ZFvcyaaV

Makes you wonder whether the intention to port it was ever on the cards or he was just indulging in a spot of internet onanism. Regardless, although I don't use Retroarch on Android on the Wii it is very impressive, I like it a lot and the emulators work brilliantly with a Gamecube or Wii Classic controller.
Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, PlayGo, RS-90, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket c/w screen mod, PSP Go
PC:
Medion Erazer, Toshiba Z20t, Dell Mini 9, Psion 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

the_gama

  • Posts: 155
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 10:21:35 pm »
Yes, I noticed that too.  But I think he really intended to work on the port, they are looking for new systems to port their project to all the time.

Anyway, I hope we can see a proper port one day.  Even without the arm optimized emulators, it could be a great app for the zero.

Dejunai

  • Posts: 18
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2013, 08:44:48 am »
Makes you wonder whether the intention to port it was ever on the cards or he was just indulging in a spot of internet onanism.

I had to lookup "onanism" and I am really disappointed that I did.

lemmywinks

  • Posts: 2866
Re: Are GCW-Zero emulators better than Android?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2013, 11:24:12 pm »
Makes you wonder whether the intention to port it was ever on the cards or he was just indulging in a spot of internet onanism.

I had to lookup "onanism" and I am really disappointed that I did.

Every day is a schoolday!
Handhelds:
GPD Win, GPD XD 64gb, PlayGo, RS-90, 3DS XL, DSi XL, GBA SP, GBBC Clone, Gameboy Pocket c/w screen mod, PSP Go
PC:
Medion Erazer, Toshiba Z20t, Dell Mini 9, Psion 5MX
Tons of other old laptops and tablets.....

 

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