Author Topic: Unified emulator menu buttons  (Read 24006 times)

Gab1975

  • Posts: 1165
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2014, 10:55:11 pm »
The old timers like me remember the Native OS of the Dingoo A320. All the emulators would open the menu on the power switch, and that worked well.

Maybe a good solution could be to use two methods for open the menu... one standard for all emulators (power switch method) and one specific for each emulator (related with the need).

Nebuleon

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Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2014, 11:23:19 pm »
If a SNES game uses Start+Select held at once to do anything, PocketSNES cannot use anything but Power. All buttons (A B X Y L R Start Select) and the d-pad are tied up with SNES input. Something similar would happen with the PSX and perhaps some arcade systems with lots of mapped buttons.

If there weren't such issues with the Power slider, this would be the only input I'd consider at all, but that is not the reality of things.

pcercuei

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Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2014, 11:29:27 pm »
What about this:
UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A

But that might cause strange things in some Konami games...

Nebuleon

  • Guest
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2014, 11:52:01 pm »
;D

Mookie7162

  • Posts: 13
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2014, 03:02:06 am »
How about L+R+A? Easy to activate when you want to, seems difficult to press accidentally... I don't believe it would interfere with any systems function.

Just an idea, I initially voted Start+Select

Eliwood_san

  • Posts: 258
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2014, 04:31:34 am »
I prefer this key button combination Power Switch+ R Button=Open Menu
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 04:34:53 am by alexei_gp »

RodrigoCard

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    • Mac Joystick Apps
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2014, 05:08:59 am »
I really preffer using the power button for everything, but having START+SELECT as an option for systems that it is not a problem (maybe even the ones that have conflicts, with an opt-in?) is good too.
So, for me, BOTH, is the answer. :)

kaio

  • Posts: 216
    • All about GCW-Zero on Russian + Repo
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2014, 05:39:15 am »
I think each emulator must have it own combination!
Picodrive - Select - is very good for menu!
ReGBA - Y - is very good!
Why we need this stupid unification??? Some guys can not remember combinations? RTFM!
And what about a screenshot?
Power+Y - I will always take a screenshot of emulator menu???
GCW-Zero | JXD S602

Nebuleon

  • Guest
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2014, 06:18:27 am »
A sizeable amount of users had taken to using Reset or Power+Select to exit any application because they didn't know our emulators had menus or that they could be exited in any other fashion. Reset is very not-recommended because it can cause file corruption, and Power+Select doesn't allow the emulator to exit and save your emulated battery-backed RAM.

We also have had a few threads here, and confused people on IRC who were like "what key is it to exit emulators on the GCW Zero?", assuming that this existed already. When told that the emulators had different menu hotkeys because of different unused buttons from the respective emulated system lacking that button (for example, L+R in OhBoy, only L in FCEUX, Select in Picodrive, Start+Select in PocketSNES because all buttons are used, Y in ReGBA...), they were instead just hopelessly confused and some asked for this unification as well.

Manuals are also inaccessible during gameplay, unless they're also online.

So yes, there was, and still is, a case for unification. "Emulators can all be brought to their menu with Power, or one or two other combination(s) that make(/s) sense for the emulated system in question" is much easier to remember for a user, much less error-prone, and much more satisfying.

Plus, who knows if an adult wants to hand the GCW Zero over to a child while travelling in a car... Or plenty of other uses where remembering a single thing is better.

The Power flick standard is already implemented in some emulators. It works this way:
--> If you press Y while Power is raised, you will take a screenshot of the game, and you will not enter the menu.
--> If you press nothing while Power is raised, you will enter the menu. You can then take a screenshot of the menu, if you so desire (for keeping track of settings or posting them online), with Power+Y.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 06:20:04 am by Nebuleon »

Gab1975

  • Posts: 1165
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2014, 06:21:51 am »
What about this:
UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A

But that might cause strange things in some Konami games...

Nah... too complex! It's "more simple" open the device, solder some wires and make a new dedicated button! :P :P

All kidding aside, in my opinion the best choice could be to have two methods (as I already write)... one standard for all emulators (power switch method) and one specific for each emulator (related with the need).

ker

  • Posts: 618
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2014, 09:38:38 am »
I'm an "old timer" also, but never love to use power slider more than for power on the console.

If we want to unify menu button I think we have only an option and it's power slider. Any other combination is used or so weird as @pcercuei one.

As power slider is not very intuitive for a newcommer or perhaps some people are not very comfortable using power slider a lot (as myself), I think a second combination is needed. Not necessarily have to be common, but as common as possible. I think start+select is a nice combination.

I'll implement this combination in any port I do (they are not ReGBA, FBA, Picodrive or PocketSNES, but I think any application should be unified)

kaio

  • Posts: 216
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Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2014, 10:45:48 am »
Please remove "Raising Power"... Combinations with power slider is not very convenient!
If I hold slider more then 3 seconds? Power off (clean shutdown)?
Can you describe this moment to your child?
Add somthing like "L+R+Start or Select".
And what about MAME4All??? In this emulator we have in-game menu and main menu...
We want one more physical button =)
GCW-Zero | JXD S602

ker

  • Posts: 618
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2014, 11:31:16 am »
Please remove "Raising Power"... Combinations with power slider is not very convenient!
If I hold slider more then 3 seconds? Power off (clean shutdown)?
Can you describe this moment to your child?
Add somthing like "L+R+Start or Select".
And what about MAME4All??? In this emulator we have in-game menu and main menu...
We want one more physical button =)

Gab1975 just post the solution: open the device and solder some wires ;-)

As every emulator will have 2 or more combinations to open main menu you could choose not to use power slider, as I'll do.

kaio

  • Posts: 216
    • All about GCW-Zero on Russian + Repo
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2014, 12:24:00 pm »
As every emulator will have 2 or more combinations to open main menu you could choose not to use power slider, as I'll do.
Please, answer:
Quote
If I hold slider more then 3 seconds? Power off (clean shutdown)?
GCW-Zero | JXD S602

hi-ban

  • Posts: 889
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2014, 01:53:07 pm »
Please, answer:
Quote
If I hold slider more then 3 seconds? Power off (clean shutdown)?

Yes, that's the intended way.

 "Raising Power" combinations can't be removed. For them to be removed we would need to have many more buttons in the GCW:
- One menu button
- Two volume buttons, or one volume wheel.
- Two brightness buttons, or one brightness wheel.

All that, plus more functions are integrated into the power button. And it has been done in a very clever way, IMO, which makes almost impossible to activate a different function by error. So i don't see the problem...

If you are concerned about it, then it's because you haven't tried it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:59:49 pm by hi-ban »

ker

  • Posts: 618
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2014, 02:51:55 pm »
Please, answer:
Quote
If I hold slider more then 3 seconds? Power off (clean shutdown)?

Yes, that's the intended way.

 "Raising Power" combinations can't be removed. For them to be removed we would need to have many more buttons in the GCW:
- One menu button
- Two volume buttons, or one volume wheel.
- Two brightness buttons, or one brightness wheel.

All that, plus more functions are integrated into the power button. And it has been done in a very clever way, IMO, which makes almost impossible to activate a different function by error. So i don't see the problem...

If you are concerned about it, then it's because you haven't tried it.

I'm concerned about it and i've tried it. For me start+select is a better combination, but I see power slider should be the default menu launcher.

hi-ban

  • Posts: 889
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2014, 03:35:00 pm »
Start+Select actually has conflicts in pretty much every emulator.

ker

  • Posts: 618
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2014, 04:19:29 pm »
Start+Select actually has conflicts in pretty much every emulator.

None of the Atari ports, Intelivision, SMS, GB, Amstrad, PCEngine,... has conflicts. Define "every" emulator, please.

There are more emulators than SNES, GBA and FBA and they can be adapted also (if each developer wants to, of course)

Anyway, If people think another combination is better I'll change it in any port I've done. No problem. People, just vote.

hi-ban

  • Posts: 889
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2014, 05:08:21 pm »
Select+Start conflicts with every system which uses a Start and/or Select button.

Some examples i can think right now:

-Game Boy/GBC
-NES
-SNES
-Game Boy Advance
-Game Gear
-Megadrive/Genesis
-Turbografx/PC Engine
-Neo Geo
-Watara Supervision
-MAME
-FBA
-PSX (at some point in the future)

Sure, they are not ALL emulators, but they are the majority of them. More important, they are the most relevant emulators.
For all those listed above, i'd like to call the menu with the Power button, as it has no conflicts at all, and it's simple and intuitive.
And i'd like to have an option to disable "alternative menu keys" so the menu doesn't get in my way when i'm activating some cheat which requires pressing Select+Start.

For example, In Donkey Kong Country, you can exit the level by pressing Select+Start. Same happens with the Donkey Kong Land games in the GB. So when i press Select+Start, i want to exit the level, i don't want the emulator menu to pop up.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 05:20:46 pm by hi-ban »

Aeter

  • Posts: 329
Re: Unified emulator menu buttons
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2014, 06:29:21 pm »
In my opinion a three button combination is ideal and not too hard.
Opening up the emulator menu should be a uncommon combination solely for the purpose of not interfering with the game, in the sense that you can not accidentally hit up the menu mid game.

If you just take a look at NDS emulators for flashcards, like the supercard dstwo or the acekard, the all use uncommon button combinations to make sure you can't accidentally hit up the menu.
They use three button combinations or even 6 buttons sometimes and I've never heard anyone say that they found it troublesome.

Just choose a good three button combination and stick with it, two button combinations are just bound to interfere with some game at some point. Just imagine having to hit buttons really fast and it triggering the menu.

My 2 cents.
~cucullus non facit monachum~