Author Topic: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept  (Read 13088 times)

Quickman

  • Posts: 220
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2016, 01:42:11 am »
@gameblabla
Awwww :(
Oh well, thanks for all your work! I was psyched on this possibility!!

care16la20

  • Posts: 178
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2016, 12:56:42 pm »


Hi
Thanks for all the efforts. One thing that I think it would be cool and possible to add is the option to rotate 90* , because the graphic novels such as Phoenix Wright are more or less playable already, but with small letters of the dialogs...

Best regards,
Carlos

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 07:52:51 pm »
@gameblabla  Man! You port some really cool stuff! Is there still any chance of development in this emulator?! This would be really great to keep pushing forward and see the light of day!

Thanks for your work dude!!

Edit: the Ds Mario kart & new super Mario are so fun!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 06:20:11 pm by Mar8 »

Aeter

  • Posts: 326
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2016, 04:46:40 am »
@gameblabla  Man! You port some really cool stuff! Is there still any chance of development in this emulator?! This would be really great to keep pushing forward and see the light of day!

Thanks for your work dude!!

Edit: the Ds Mario kart looks so fun!
Meh snes version is best imho.
And if you like mario kart, try wacky wheels, now that's some old school stuff that is still cool to this day.
~cucullus non facit monachum~

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2016, 01:10:23 am »
@gameblabla  there's some really good potential here! I just tried both new super Mario Brothers and Mario kart? Both are very slow but looked incredible on the GCW zero's screen.
  Is it possible there will be any further development in this emulator?!? Or should I not get my hopes up?

Thanks again for the port regardless

@Aeter I'll check out WW👍
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 01:20:12 am by Mar8 »

Aeter

  • Posts: 326
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2016, 01:31:48 am »
@gameblabla  there's some really good potential here! I just tried both new super Mario Brothers and Mario kart? Both are very slow but looked incredible on the GCW zero's screen.
  Is it possible there will be any further development in this emulator?!? Or should I not get my hopes up?

Thanks again for the port regardless

@Aeter I'll check out WW👍
I think proof of concept is as far as this goes and should go. Most effort to make this better will not result in any playable games I think.
There's also the gba emulator btw. Gba has a great mario kart game as well. I have the original for both DS and GBA both are a blast to play.
Other awesome racing game that might work well on gcw0 is CTR aka Crash Team Racing for PSX. It's basically mario kart equivalent for the Playstation with Crash Bandicoot as the main hero of course.
~cucullus non facit monachum~

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2016, 02:04:50 am »
haha  come on man!😂 I'm trying to get information from the man whom ported this emulator... While your opinions are appreciated, It's obvious that I'm trying to seek specific information from @gameblabla 😁😁😁

 Also, I've tried getting crash team racing to run for the PSX multiple times/different roms? If you check, I left information about my results in the PSX thread😀

Edit: CRT supposedly works now. 👍
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 05:54:38 pm by Mar8 »

Nebuleon

  • Posts: 37
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2016, 02:23:39 am »
haha  come on man!😂 I'm trying to get information from the man whom ported this emulator... While your opinions are appreciated, It's obvious that I'm trying to seek specific information from @gameblabla 😁😁😁
This is the most polite way I've ever seen someone on a forum say "buzz off, I didn't want your opinion". I like it.

But gameblabla already stated that you shouldn't get your hopes up too high because there's a lot of work to be done, and you don't appear to be asking anything more specific than "will it be faster?".

Think about Mupen64plus -- but you also have the added bonus of needing to emulate 2 screens with 1, and 1 touchscreen with none. I can see why this is still a proof of concept.
The Cloud is nice, but not if it decides to rain on your parade.

Quickman

  • Posts: 220
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2016, 02:24:53 am »
 Tried out/tested both of those games too.  Really does look incredible on the zero!  Would also love to see further development
@gameblabla were you saying that you would need to build a new version of this for the zero (JIT) if it were to be further optimized?.. and if so, is that out of your job description/abilities?

You're the best thanks!

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2016, 03:41:48 am »
 Thank you @Nebuleon for the breakdown. I am absolutely trying to be positive and polite on this forum. Words can get misconstrued so easily.   So I usually try hard to remain diplomatic and careful with my words.
  It's unfortunate that my posts came off sounding like "will it be faster?", When in actuality what I'm really trying to ask is:  Is this project still being personally pursued by @gameblabla whatsoever? ..because I, amongst a few other people, are very interested.
 Also,  you have to understand the frustration of telling a developer how excited or interested you are in their work only to have someone else chime in and state things like, "Proof of concept is as far as it should go"...  To me one negative response is easier perceived as disinterest from the majority, rather when the actual majority are saying, "hey this is cool! You should pursue this and see it further! Either way, thank you!!"

 Also, this was not meant to be offensive to @Aeter in any way. I just hope this post better explains where I was coming from. Also, I will check out your recommendations, thank you!

I'm sorry for any drama caused.

EDIT:
Also, I said "also" a LOT.


Details:
 -Mario kart surprisingly ran a bit faster than new super Mario Brothers.
-The double screens were not an issue with the gameplay  on these two games whatsoever.
- It looked really good on the LCD of the zero. Very close to the size of two Game Boy micro's screens stacked on top of each other inside of the zero's bezel.

Thanks for your port👍
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 05:58:21 pm by Mar8 »

Nebuleon

  • Posts: 37
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2016, 04:22:01 am »
Right, what I meant was more "I can see that the effort required is too large for the project to currently be anything more than a proof of concept".

It's a lot of effort to raise the speed enough while not breaking the emulated execution environment (aka game compatibility). A just-in-time compiler (JIT) needs to be made for this part, which turns the ARM code of Nintendo DS games into MIPS code for the GCW Zero to run without constantly needing to consult translation tables. Because the DS runs an ARM7 processor, which is also present in the GBA, some of the code could be taken from ReGBA... but it would need to be hooked into the new memory map of the DS, and Desmume's way of doing things.

Secondly, because the DS has two processors, an emulator must synchronise two chips, running some of the ARM7 code, then the ARM9, then the ARM7, then the ARM9, etc. Those processor switches are expensive because they must save the first processor's state, restore the second's and determine where to go after each switch.

After those are done, you then get into issues with rendering the screens; because there is a 3D renderer, the part of the emulator that deals with the GPU must be optimised. And, because the 2D graphics modes are much more plentiful and complex than on the GBA, there is much more code to select and perform the correct renderer for each graphics mode, sprite size, background tile size, rotation etc. than ReGBA. All of that makes emulation yet slower.

And then, finally, you can get into the 2-screen to 1-screen mapping, and the touchscreen emulation with no touchscreen on the GCW.

I'm not saying that this should stay a proof-of-concept forever. If gameblabla has done any work on Desmume past the version in the Original Post, you can be certain that I will appreciate it. I'm merely saying that I won't blame gameblabla if he has started to do work but finds that it's insufficient -or- he has hit roadblocks and the last public version stays a proof-of-concept. The demands placed on the GCW to emulate a Nintendo DS are simply very great; a JIT compiler takes lots of knowledge, design effort and time to make, and won't guarantee that any game runs fast enough; and if you get past those hurdles, then input and output are going to suck.

ReGBA takes 35%-55% of the GCW Zero's 1 GHz CPU to emulate a 16 MHz ARM7 processor. The Nintendo DS has a 33 MHz ARM7 and a 66 MHz ARM9. As the Atari Jaguar ad said, Do The Math! :)
The Cloud is nice, but not if it decides to rain on your parade.

Aeter

  • Posts: 326
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2016, 11:47:12 am »
Well all I was saying really is that it wouldn't be very realistic or fair to ask for more development on this as it won't be very rewarding.
The GCW0 is just not the device for DS emulation.
Even if the speed and all would be faster I still think all the effort put wouldn't weigh up to the final result.
~cucullus non facit monachum~

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2016, 07:50:20 pm »
@Nebuleon  thank you for the vast technical write-up. You are wise beyond your words, friend.  And I always love details.

@Aeter  I respect your opinion, but I hope you can understand that what I am trying to do is reconnect with and receive information/opinions solely & directly from the original poster.  No harm intended.

To @gameblabla
 - I left information on the games tested w/DesMume at the end of my last post. Thank you for reading🍕
 -And thank you so much for the port.

Also, As Neb stated... If this were never to make it past "proof of concept", I completely understand. I was only engaging to say thank you and show interest with the others whom also show interest. Your work is very much appreciated!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 07:57:59 pm by Mar8 »

Aeter

  • Posts: 326
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2016, 07:58:33 pm »
I understand that you want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, but just don't get your hopes up.
~cucullus non facit monachum~

gameblabla (OP)

  • Posts: 1361
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2016, 06:05:39 am »
@Mar8 I hate to break your dreams but basically, what Nebuleon said is mostly true.
In no case should you expect fullspeed DS emulation on the GCW0.

The thing that kills this project is the fact that Desmume has recompilers for ARM and x86/amd64 but not for
MIPS, which is the architecture the GCW0 is currently using.
I'm pretty sure it is possible to reach speeds like Xdesmume but without someone dedicated to write such a JIT,
it will not run very fast. (let alone fullspeed)

Nebuleon said that the DS has 2 ARM processors.
That's true but i don't think a lot of DS games is using the ARM7 processor so perhaps that could be stripped out.
I could be wrong though, i need to test this further.

There is no guarantee that i will work more on it though,
i was just interested to see if emulating DS games on the Zero was possible.
It also doesn't help that the Desmume authors are not interested to speed up their emulator for low-end devices...

Mar8

  • Posts: 103
Re: Desmume for GCW0 - Proof of Concept
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2016, 05:59:21 pm »
@gameblabla  thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, as Neb had stated? I did not expect this to be, nor was I asking if it would ever be full speed/or when it would be full speed. I was more so just curious to see if you were still working on it, or thought about pursuing it again whatsoever.  Thank you so much for all of your work! It looks gorgeous on the GCW zero's LCD though I must say. Thanks again!

 

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