Dingoonity.org
Dingux (Dingoo Linux) => General => Topic started by: sdinjens on December 09, 2011, 10:16:38 pm
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Hey there!
I have had my Dingoo A320 for a month now and am hooked! Am looking to mod it to get even more enjoyment out of it (as we speak its updating some emulators), and I'm now coming to install Dingux. But after reading up on it a bit, I still can't seem to answer one question:
Why should I install Dingux?
Does it give access to certain software? Certain tricks/hacks it opens up? There's a lot of info on the how, but less on the what and why. Hopefully somebody can fill me in.
Thanks!
S.
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More emulators, better emulators, more games, better games...
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Yes, but not an OpenDingux there is nothing on it :P
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Duke nukem 3d, Doom 1 and Doom 2 on your Dingoo. I really don't need to say anything else.
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Exactly :) plus, the best Atari 2600 emulation on any handheld I know, plus a very good Neo Geo Pocket Color one, and this was in fact my main reason to get Linux on the Dingoo.
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Aha, thanks. Hadnt realised that so many things run only on Dingux. ???
A shame really, the dualboot kind of undermines the feel of having one simple interface for all games. But I guess that's a luxury problem.
Installing Dingux now, let's hope it's a doozy.
THanks!
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There's also new hardware features, like real time clock (keeps the clock as long as you don't boot into chinese firmware), usb networking (ability to have internet in the dingoo using a [linux] pc as a middleman) and swap (expands the available memory)
Anyway, come and join us at our irc channel: #dingoonity @ freenode.org. We'll be more than happy to help you with the Dingux installation.
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Thanks a lot Zear! Havent used IRC in ages, don't even have it on my current machines.
So far the main challenge has been sifting through old data to see which threads still apply and which don't - took me a while to find the google code page to dingux...
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You have two choices.
Either "legacy" Dingux, now obsolete, but probably most compatible with all the games and emulators released throughout the years. You can download the newest image here: http://sience.schattenkind.net/dingoo/SiENcE_downloads.htm (both kernel & rootfs). You'll also need a menu system: http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi?0,0,0,0,116,473
Or.. you can try OpenDingux, a new linux port to the Dingoo A320. It's easier to install (already comes with stuff like a menu system, swap, tv-out, no need to install these separately), however it has a lower compatibility with the legacy Dingux software (mostly due to bad programming/porting habits of the old dingux software). Additionally, it's still a work-in-progress, so it might not be perfectly stable. You can get it here: http://www.treewalker.org/opendingux/
Personally I suggest OpenDingux, because it's becoming a new standard for the Dingoo and is easier to install and handle. It also has visual improvements, like the terminal output not being shown when launching the apps and a nice splash screen during the boot process (not yet available in the publicly released images afaik).
And here's a nice tip, because you'll probably stumble upon it if you're installing from a windows machine:
SD card for Dingux/OpenDingux has to be formatted with a filesystem created on a partition. Partitionless filesystems seem to not be detected by the bootloader.
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Wow thanks, good tips.
The things I have learned after a full evening chasing Dingux:
1. This seems to be a troll-free community - how rare!!
2. Few people on these boards seem to have MacOS, and most tools are only for Win (*snif*)
3. There are quite a few versions of the dualbootloader floating around, but no clear way to know what the most recent is.
4. There are even more versions of Dingux floating around, but no clear way to know what the most recent is. (have installed six of them, none working)
5. And then the localpacks. Those are just plain confusing. I've been vigourously pursuing them, only to discover quite late that they are outdated and don't pack the files I wanted to have in the first place.
6. There are quite a few obscure but hefty problems which are only mentioned in a few places (fe, copy zImage first, then nfsroot; your example of the partition is new to me as well, that's probably why Dingux isnt working yet...)
7. This board could use archiving of obsolete articles to prevent newb confusion.
Signing off for tonight, but I live to fight another day! 8)
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2. Few people on these boards seem to have MacOS, and most tools are only for Win (*snif*)
That's because OSX and Linux users don't need any tools but the usbboot (which is included in osx and linux versions in the dualboot installer zip)
3. There are quite a few versions of the dualbootloader floating around, but no clear way to know what the most recent is.
They have all barely any differences. All the dualboot does is boots the system. No improvements for that are needed and any version will work for you as long as the ILI matches. The newest can be obtained from here: http://code.google.com/p/dingoo-linux/downloads/list
4. There are even more versions of Dingux floating around, but no clear way to know what the most recent is. (have installed six of them, none working)
5. And then the localpacks. Those are just plain confusing. I've been vigourously pursuing them, only to discover quite late that they are outdated and don't pack the files I wanted to have in the first place.
Read my previous post regarding that two points.
6. There are quite a few obscure but hefty problems which are only mentioned in a few places (fe, copy zImage first, then nfsroot; your example of the partition is new to me as well, that's probably why Dingux isnt working yet...)
That's because most of these problems originate from one using Windows to prepare the partition and install Dingux. Most of the power users from the forums use Linux and they never had any of these problems, which make the issues hard to trace back.
7. This board could use archiving of obsolete articles to prevent newb confusion.
I agree, although that requires someone with a lot of time and motivation. Additionally, I think everyone is just waiting for OpenDingux, so we can just mark everything on the forums as obsolete and start over with new, official tutorials free of rumors and unconfirmed revelations.
That's also why I suggested you should join our irc channel. It's much easier to explain everything directly without a need of long and perhaps confusing forum posts.
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Woohoo! Reformatting to the partition seemed to do the trick. The Penguin is on the screen - but unfortunately won't come off! I'm getting:
FATAL: cannot mount dev/mmcblk0/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /boot
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
Any idea what this means? The only word I got from this was 'panic' :P
Also thanks for all those answer, they help! Just a few follow-up Qs:
2. Is there a good tool to hack the dmenu on MacOs? Like showing the system folder for new skins? I was looking at HXFTool, but that's only Win.
5. So where do I get the latest emulators? I understand those included in the localpacks are sometimes dated, but I'm trying to avoid having to install them one-by-one. I don't care much for most of the other stuff in the localpacks, but I'd sure like to have the emus complete.
7. Yeah agreed, probably not worth it, though at the moment it's mighty confusing for noobs as myself, especially since I'm not *nix proficient. One suggestion for the future: include one part of the boards in which only mods can post, that include the latest files (+explanation) and tutorials. For the consuming users, that's really the most important.
8. (yes, a new one, I'm cheating). Is there any way for Dingux to access the NAND? Or should all Emus and ROMs be placed on the MiniSD? Seems a waste.
9. (related). How does the quality of the native MD and SNES emus compare to the ones on Dingux? I'll play those two most often, so perhaps it might be worth it to put those ROMs on the NAND and the others on the SD.
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2. Is there a good tool to hack the dmenu on MacOs? Like showing the system folder for new skins? I was looking at HXFTool, but that's only Win.
1. HXFTool is not for dmenu, it's for native firmware.
2. Dmenu is obsolete, everyone uses gmenu2x now.
5. So where do I get the latest emulators? I understand those included in the localpacks are sometimes dated, but I'm trying to avoid having to install them one-by-one. I don't care much for most of the other stuff in the localpacks, but I'd sure like to have the emus complete.
You have to download them one by one. Good starting point is openhandhelds dingoo archive (http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi)
8. (yes, a new one, I'm cheating). Is there any way for Dingux to access the NAND? Or should all Emus and ROMs be placed on the MiniSD? Seems a waste.
OpenDingux can acces nand, but in read only mode, so no save states on NAND etc.
9. (related). How does the quality of the native MD and SNES emus compare to the ones on Dingux? I'll play those two most often, so perhaps it might be worth it to put those ROMs on the NAND and the others on the SD.
Don't know about MD, but PocketSnes runs better then snes9x. Only use snes9x with special chip games.
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8. (yes, a new one, I'm cheating). Is there any way for Dingux to access the NAND? Or should all Emus and ROMs be placed on the MiniSD? Seems a waste.
OpenDingux can acces nand, but in read only mode, so no save states on NAND etc.
Most of the OD emus (gnuboy, gpSP, Picodrive etc.) can load the ROMs from the NAND and save on the SD.
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Woohoo! Reformatting to the partition seemed to do the trick. The Penguin is on the screen - but unfortunately won't come off! I'm getting:
FATAL: cannot mount dev/mmcblk0/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /boot
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
Any idea what this means? The only word I got from this was 'panic' :P
This pretty much means that bootloader boots the kernel, but the kernel has trouble mounting the SD partition. Are you sure you have correctly formatted the card (fat32 on the first partition)?
2. Is there a good tool to hack the dmenu on MacOs? Like showing the system folder for new skins? I was looking at HXFTool, but that's only Win.
As jagotu mentioned it already, dmenu is extremely outdated and also unstable. You should go with the minimal local pack i linked you with in one of my previous posts. It contains gmenu2x and is a nice start for new dingux users. Assuming you tried to use something that ancient, your kernel/rootfs might also be outdated. Be sure to try the one I mentioned in the earlier posts.
5. So where do I get the latest emulators? I understand those included in the localpacks are sometimes dated, but I'm trying to avoid having to install them one-by-one. I don't care much for most of the other stuff in the localpacks, but I'd sure like to have the emus complete.
http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/dingoo.cgi is the unofficial dingux repository. Some 90% of the games and emus released throughout the years should be there. Just be sure to check the upload dates to try the newest ones.
The news section of the dingoonity boards is also a good source of the recent emulators.
7. Yeah agreed, probably not worth it, though at the moment it's mighty confusing for noobs as myself, especially since I'm not *nix proficient. One suggestion for the future: include one part of the boards in which only mods can post, that include the latest files (+explanation) and tutorials. For the consuming users, that's really the most important.
That's not a bad idea really.
8. (yes, a new one, I'm cheating). Is there any way for Dingux to access the NAND? Or should all Emus and ROMs be placed on the MiniSD? Seems a waste.
As it was already replied, OpenDingux supports the NAND for read only, making it perfect for storing roms and music.
9. (related). How does the quality of the native MD and SNES emus compare to the ones on Dingux? I'll play those two most often, so perhaps it might be worth it to put those ROMs on the NAND and the others on the SD.
I don't play emulators too often, so I can't answer the first part of the question, although both native firmware and OpenDingux can access NAND & SD, so you shouldn't have a problem with accessing any roms from any location in both systems.
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This pretty much means that bootloader boots the kernel, but the kernel has trouble mounting the SD partition. Are you sure you have correctly formatted the card (fat32 on the first partition)?
FAT32 is certain. The partition is pretty sure I think. At first it didnt boot at all when the disk was unpartitioned, then I created one partition which took up the whole disk and put it on there and that's where this came up. It's called disk1s1 so it should be right, right? As for kernel aan rootfs, I took the Legacy from your post so they should be okay. Edit: thinking about it more, I don't get this. How can it start the kernel on the SD, yet be unable to mount it? ???
As jagotu mentioned it already, dmenu is extremely outdated and also unstable.
My bad, I meant I would like to edit native menu. Really, who came up with 'interesting game'?! :)
That's not a bad idea really.
When not fiddling with pieces of new kit, I have my moments. ;)
As it was already replied, OpenDingux supports the NAND for read only, making it perfect for storing roms and music.
(...)
I don't play emulators too often, so I can't answer the first part of the question, although both native firmware and OpenDingux can access NAND & SD, so you shouldn't have a problem with accessing any roms from any location in both systems.
Hmz that's certainly a pro for OD, though if my SD is large enough I would never need worry. At the bottom line, it seems to me that OD has small advantages and Legacy has all the, well, legacy. Why do people go for OpenDingux and not legacy? You guys mention that all the good stuff works on Legacy, and that OD is still developmental. So when it comes down to it, why do you chose OD?
And related, do you even ever boot in Native anymore? Of just always in Dingux?
Thanks for all the links and tips!
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This pretty much means that bootloader boots the kernel, but the kernel has trouble mounting the SD partition. Are you sure you have correctly formatted the card (fat32 on the first partition)?
FAT32 is certain. The partition is pretty sure I think. At first it didnt boot at all when the disk was unpartitioned, then I created one partition which took up the whole disk and put it on there and that's where this came up. It's called disk1s1 so it should be right, right? As for kernel aan rootfs, I took the Legacy from your post so they should be okay.
You have formatted it from OSX, right? I have no experience with that system, however mth, one of the OD devs, does. That's what he said on IRC:
<mth_mac> yes, it's very likely the OEM ID problem
<mth_mac> only solutions are to hex edit the bootsector or to reformat with a recognized tool
Hmz that's certainly a pro for OD, though if my SD is large enough I would never need worry. At the bottom line, it seems to me that OD has small advantages and Legacy has all the, well, legacy. Why do people go for OpenDingux and not legacy? You guys mention that all the good stuff works on Legacy, and that OD is still developmental. So when it comes down to it, why do you chose OD?
I think the OD developers can explain this better, but afaik the main reason behind OD was to fix certain quirks in the legacy and keep the kernel mainstream. OpenDingux is pretty much a new standard, has a better hardware support and is much easier to install and handle afterwards (for example has hotkeys for volume, brightness, tv-out, suspend).
Legacy has no actual advantages. The only reason some applications work in legacy and don't in OD is because of bad programming habits like static-linking or directly accessing the filesystem pathes for various hardware (overclock, volume, tv-out), which ultimately makes the given software work only on a particular version of the system and makes it incompatible with os updates that introduce changes in that matter. I'm personally guilty of such practices - some of my very old ports were static linked against ancient libraries.
And related, do you even ever boot in Native anymore? Of just always in Dingux?
I have my Dingoos since late 2009 and so far I have booted into native os maybe 50 times ;)
And again, I invite you to join our irc channel, perhaps some of the members with OSX familiarity will be able to help you correctly format the card.
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It's like when Win7 was new. You could choose good ol' XP with all the compatibility and tricks, or you could choose Win7, newer, better, faster, but not compatible with all stuff.
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I don't see any conflict at all. You can have OD in one sd and Dlegacy on another.
Just take in mind It's still OD is a long term project (that might take years to reach its full potential) whereas Dl is already a pretty cooked and mature project (Well, at least most of the emulators run at full speed -except psx but dingoo wasn't intended to run that-). As far as I can see, the weaker emulators would be Mame or dosbox (but I don't think it's something important).
On the other hand, you have an excellent speed on Snes and Genesis with the science kernel so I don't have major complaints. Dingo really excells in what it's supposed to do.
I'm completely satisfied with dingoo and for me it's the best handheld console hands down.
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@CREATICA: Great idea running two SDs! I'll get a new one and do just that.
<mth_mac> yes, it's very likely the OEM ID problem
<mth_mac> only solutions are to hex edit the bootsector or to reformat with a recognized tool
Alright, I'll get IRC and come on this evening when I have time to take another crack at it. In the mean time, what 'recognized tool' should I have? If theres a download link somewhere it sounds like the most straightforward option.
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Legacy has no actual technical advantages. The only reason some applications work in legacy and don't in OD is because of bad programming habits like static-linking or directly accessing the filesystem pathes for various hardware (overclock, volume, tv-out), which ultimately makes the given software work only on a particular version of the system and makes it incompatible with os updates that introduce changes in that matter. I'm personally guilty of such practices - some of my very old ports were static linked against ancient libraries.
FTFY. I'm sorry if that comes off harsh, it's not my intention at all, but if you have like 1/3 to 1/2 of apps/games/emulators that work on legacy not working on OD, then I can't see any advantage at all on that from an end-user standpoint. Last I've seen, there are a few emulators (mainly for arcade) still not ported over to OD (usually because there's no source for them and the original contributors have left the scene), and a lot of games/engines haven't been ported too - I'm specifically looking at Ur-Quan Masters, OpenTyrian and OpenBor, and last I've looked, games based on the Doom Engine (Doom 1/2, Heretic, Hexen, etc.) also didn't work. I may be outdated though, so corrections are welcome. The wiki is offline, so it's even harder to keep track of things now.
And related, do you even ever boot in Native anymore? Of just always in Dingux?
I do boot into native very often, with a bit of disgust I might add, for a single reason: NES emulator. Unfortunately, even at this day and age, there are still no good NES emulators for either Legacy Dingux or Opendingux. The ones that do exist for Legacy Dingux are no good at all - they mostly suffer from stuttering or horrible sound lags.
Well, I'll go back and duck in my corner now, waiting for the flames... :-)
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You're right for arcade emulator (fba and mame)
But Opentyrian, OpenBor, doom engine, heretic, hexen run on OpenDingux
Actually after testing lot of game i think it's less than 1/10 (for the games that runs on legacy and not on OD).
May be you're priority is to play these emulators or game, if not, there will be an advantage to use OD.
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There's a simple rule what doesn't work:
1) it's statically linked against old libs
2) it accesses cpu overclock, tv-out or other hardware directly via built-in menus rather than gmenu2x
#1 is mainly the oldest game ports
#2 is pretty much limited to certain emulators
There's really just a few apps that don't work in OD, unfortunatelly for some it's popular emulators
FTFY. I'm sorry if that comes off harsh, it's not my intention at all, but if you have like 1/3 to 1/2 of apps/games/emulators that work on legacy not working on OD, then I can't see any advantage at all on that from an end-user standpoint. Last I've seen, there are a few emulators (mainly for arcade) still not ported over to OD (usually because there's no source for them and the original contributors have left the scene), and a lot of games/engines haven't been ported too - I'm specifically looking at Ur-Quan Masters, OpenTyrian and OpenBor, and last I've looked, games based on the Doom Engine (Doom 1/2, Heretic, Hexen, etc.) also didn't work. I may be outdated though, so corrections are welcome. The wiki is offline, so it's even harder to keep track of things now.
There's another side of it. If legacy was left as a standard, you'd complain about the difficulty of the installation and handling of it. When there's finally people improving the alternative firmware for Dingoo A320, there's complaints about compatibility which in no way originates from OpenDingux, but rather the unability to recompile certain apps due to the lack of their source code. I understand that for some people OpenDingux is not yet usable because they miss their favourite emulators, but on the other hand the completely rewritten drivers and support for hardware surface should ultimately boost the speed of emulation, as soon as the emulators in question get an OpenDingux port.
As for the doom engine games, they all work fine. There's even a new port of Heretic & Hexen that makes them 100% playable (as opposed to the older ports which had no way to cycle items/weapons or look up/down)
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At this moment, I don't see the actual advantage of OD either . The emulation runs, more or less, at the same speed. That's what I've read in this forum. Otherwise, and maybe, in one year or two the situation has turned around. Besides it's clear the word "pre-release" in every release of OD which denotes something still incomplete and it's normal because creating a whole new system from the scratch is a very time-consuming task.
So my recommendation would be stick with legacy and stay vigilant (on a long term) of OD for new releases. Take on mind that I've seen posts talking about the idea of one OD which are dated almost one year and a half ago. So if you're impatient you know what you should do.
Anyway, perhaps a new wave of cheap android handheld consoles conquer the retro-gaming scene in two years and Dingoo is forgotten into oblivion for good (like what happened to gp2x among others), so you better don't care much about the future. It doesn't pay off. Enjoy what you already have and whatever it gets the job done. This is the most practical approaching to this subject.
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@coccijoe & @zear:
I stand corrected regarding Doom engine games and others. Still hoping for a port of Ur-Quan though :-)
And yes, I get that sticking with legacy means supporting a broken platform - I'm a software developer myself (though not focused on embedded platforms at the moment), and I understand the burden it is and that many problems on legacy platforms can be fixed only by rewriting everything from scratch. I also understand the chicken and egg problem that brings, and that you mention: the newer platform may not necessarily support the older stuff, but it fixes long standing problems on the legacy platform.
I think part of the problem could be mitigated by dropping the "pre-release" status on OD already - from the looks of it, it seems to be at least as stable and functional (barring userspace incompatibilities) as legacy dingux. I think that would raise the mindshare on OD and maybe attract more developers to develop for it. I say this because I've seen a couple of emu/app releases lately that apparently still targeted legacy.
While being a software dev, I use the dingoo primarily as an end-user, so I also understand where the frustration from creatica comes from: The Dingoo / Dingux is supposed to be primarily a platform for emulation fans, and yet, the emulation part of it still lacks in many aspects. Case in point, the NES emulator I mentioned previously. I could go on about how SNES emu is also still so-so, despite the source being available. I mean, for a platform that's supposed to be for emulation, the most popular emulation platforms (NES, SNES, Genesis, etc.) have sub-par support, and instead we get emulation for completely obscure or niche platforms like Atari Lynx, and Vectrex (seriously?). The gist of my point is, it seems we have a lot of talented developers working on the core platform and/or on their own pet projects, but there doesn't seem to exist as much interest on the part that really matters: userspace, and the more popular stuff. And that's frustrating.
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We're not paid. We don't get any benefit in working on dingoo stuff.
So if you people rage because you don't get your super-cool SNES / PSX emu, just open a C/C++ book and go.
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Look, I'm not demanding anything, I know you guys are just scratching your own itch and just happen to share it with everyone else, which is all well and good. In fact, I don't mind the core platform (OD) getting more attention so much as I mind so much talent being wasted in useless (to most people) userspace stuff (meaning emulators/games) like I mentioned previously.
But I digress. Yes, I wish I had the time to spend on scratching those itches of mine too, but between a wife, two kids and already getting paid to work on software dev, there's not too much time or energy left to do anything else but play around :-P
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Developers have lives too.
What I mean is that you have the right to be frustrated by the lack of work on emulators, but you can't blame developers for the current situation. They do what they want.
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Personally, I am grateful for all Dingoo enthusiasts that make games and emulators I enjoy hours with and I don?t mind registering here just to say thank you to them :)
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Personally, I am grateful for all Dingoo enthusiasts that make games and emulators I enjoy hours with and I don?t mind registering here just to say thank you to them :)
Yep, huuuuuge +1 here.
Dingoo/Dingux is what it is. I happen to think it's pretty good, the device can do much more than I ever expected it to when I bought it and that is due in no small part to people who dedicate some of their time to developing software for it.
Cheers guys!
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Well, after a personal hotline, all is in order! Great thanks to Ayla, Zear and Surkow for (1) convincing me to go OD, (2) peptalks and instructions and (3) an enjoyable evening with oldskool irc.
Thanks!