Dingoonity.org

Dingoo Official Firmware => Emulation => Topic started by: iamkenIT on October 03, 2011, 12:02:16 pm

Title: 2d PSP
Post by: iamkenIT on October 03, 2011, 12:02:16 pm
Is it possible to emulate 2D PSP Games (atleast simple games) on the dingoo?
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: SiENcE on October 03, 2011, 01:13:58 pm
Nope sorry.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: iamkenIT on October 03, 2011, 02:01:44 pm
Explain.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: jagotu on October 03, 2011, 05:21:09 pm
PSP: 333 MHz with GPU
Dingoo: 400 MHz without GPU
Got it?
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: Friendly Neighborhood Dingoonity Troll on October 03, 2011, 11:32:36 pm
A machine needs to be several times more powerful than the machine it wants to emulate.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: zear on October 04, 2011, 11:26:20 am
Simple answer: because there's no PSP emulator for the Dingoo.

But how would you want to run psp games on the dingoo? Totally skipping the hardware differences, the screen resolution doesn't match. And applying a software scaler would decrease the speed from 0.0001fps to 0.0000001fps :)
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: pcercuei on October 04, 2011, 11:52:07 am
It depends of the software scaler. One which would drop pixels could be extremely fast, and a game running at 0.00010fps could drop to 0.00009fps, but not much slower. But I believe you were speaking about a bilinear filter, which would indeed be extremely slower.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: Solstice on October 04, 2011, 12:31:11 pm
Wow you guys sure answer the important questions............
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: bigdavebear on October 04, 2011, 01:59:11 pm
Well while the 2D games may look like they do not require much, they are still coded and programed for the PSP and so still take a lot to Emulate.

For example take old system like N64 you need a higher spec PC to Emulate and play Duke Nukem 3D on N64 than just running Duke 3D for PC yet both games are near enough identical. The same goes for years ago when Doom on PSX emulated on PC took much more spec than Doom on PC yet again the games was near the same apart from the sound and music etc.

What i am saying is metal slug Anthology psp would take too much for the dingoo to Emulate as its coded for PSP, yet there would be no difference in the games graphics and sounds to the Arcade roms that run well on Dingoo, same goes for say trying to Emulate the Sega Megadrive Classics for PSP on a Dingoo yet the SMD Roms would run fine in a Emulator
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: bigdavebear on October 04, 2011, 02:01:37 pm
The GPU debate is not the main one, as maybe the PSP would not hardly use it for 2D

The problem is usually when your emulating a system that is 333Mhz your gonna need a lot more than that to emulate it, this varries from system to system emulated. But i would imagine that even a Dingoo with double its Spec would not Emulate the PSP even if it had say 800Mhz CPU
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: pcercuei on October 04, 2011, 02:47:34 pm
Of course the PSP uses its GPU to handle 2D too.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: bigdavebear on October 05, 2011, 04:42:14 pm
Yeah that true...

I guess my point is a lot of the 2D games are not that intensive to do as far as hardware drain, in other words they would not use much of the GPU and a sytem with higher CPU could do the job...

But as the games are coded for the PSP Hardware it would make the game much harder to emulate.

so like i said playing Metal Slug 2 PSP if someone gets a PSP Emulator for future homebrew consoles would run a lot slower than the Metal Slug 2 Arcade rom, yet both games when playing (apart from few options) would be near enough the same thing.

In a nutshell the bottom line would be that i dont think any homebrew handheld would emulate the PSP to a good enough and playable level, maybe the Pandora could but how many people own them.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: iamkenIT on October 07, 2011, 08:59:02 am
If games that were first developed with certain lower-end consoles or arcades, are ported with the PSP, shouldn't there be a diff in technical output as the ported game are optimized for the psP's hw which is a higher in spec..
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: Solstice on October 07, 2011, 09:03:56 am
CAN DINGGO RUN TEKKEN 5 DURP, CAN IT MAKE ME TOAST? go ken dogg
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: iamkenIT on October 07, 2011, 12:38:24 pm
F &KK Off, it's not that I can't understand why such hardware can't ever emulate sonycrup, it's that I have little knowledge on gaming handhelds recently as I'm still learning crap. .. and I thought dingoo was a decent handheld with almost the same hw on the psp, and creating emulators was crap coding. So, bs, if we can get the source code, whichj will nvr hppn, crap may work with extensive mods.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: SilverhawkBR on October 08, 2011, 12:20:02 am
It's simple. The dingoo A320 has a internal, single-cored JZ4740 CPU with 400Mhz stock clock (running at 336 default) and NO GPU AT ALL.

The Sony PSP has a 333Mhz MIPS, single-cored CPU, backed up by a nVidia GPU.

To emulate a console, handheld, device, (put name of electronic equipmente here), you need at least 3x Times the processing power of the emulated device.

If you dont know what a GPU is:
A GPU is a chip/processor created especifically and unically for graphics and physics processing. If a device lacks such a thing, like the A320, then generating 3D graphics is a hard and slow task.
What's more, a 2D game CAN ALWAYS(or not) use special effects that ONLY A GPU CAN PROCESS OR CREATE.

For example: Blur (can be done by processor, slow), Shadows (Slow on CPU too), Shading (Pixel Shader, cant be done by processor), Vertex shading (same as PixelShader), Water reflections (hardly done by processor).

Did you get? I'm not explaining that again.  :-\
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: lemmywinks on October 08, 2011, 11:17:58 am
What about a PS3 emulator for Dingoo?

Also what are the chances of a Crysis port?

 ;D
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: jagotu on October 08, 2011, 11:40:24 am
I'm already working on PS3 emu, I'm getting like 0,00000001 FPS but I think with some optimaliztion I can reach 0,000001 FPS. If you don't believe me, well then you're right.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: lemmywinks on October 08, 2011, 12:09:35 pm
I've done a quick mock up of a Dingoo running PS3 games. As you can see from my picture it's totally capable of running Just Cause 2.

Hopefully this puts an end to all those negative devs who refuse to spend their spare time coding us awesome emulators!  ;D
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: SilverhawkBR on October 08, 2011, 08:02:09 pm
Damn, i can barely wait  ;D ;D ;D ;D
(trollface)
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: Pingouin on October 08, 2011, 08:57:42 pm
F &KK Off, it's not that I can't understand why such hardware can't ever emulate sonycrup

Actually, that's exactly the problem. If you could understand, you wouldn't even have bothered asking.

In fact when SiENcE replied "nope sorry" and you further asked "Explain", I believe the reason why SiENcE didn't bother giving you any clarification is because he knew that since you asked the question, it was clear that you couldn't understand the explanation.

Likewise, if my mom asked me if the Higgs boson could be found in her pressure cooker, and I said "nope", she wouldn't bother asking me further explanations.

I think SilverhawkBR's answer is as good as it can get, so anyone jumping on this thread should just read that and move on *EDIT* I'm talking about reply #15.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: bigdavebear on October 08, 2011, 09:27:20 pm
We cant really go and compare the PSP to Dingoo a PSP is reconmended to run at 333Mhz the Dingoo A320 400Mhz

The Dingoo is underclocked to 336Mhz the PSP 233Mhz (although some games over clock it to its 333Mhz rated speed).

But i would say that CPU power alone the PSP is better even though its not as fast.

You see CPU Speed is not the be all that ends all as far as Processing power goes.

The Atari Jaguar had 2X 26.6Mhz CPUs, the PSX a 33Mhz one and Saturn 2 X 28.6Mhz

But the Jaguar was not even close in terms of Performance of either Sonys or Segas consoles.

Likewise the PS2 was 294Mhz the Xbox more than double at 733Mhz but the PS2's CPU was better type of CPU and so the Xbox was not over double the power of the PS2

So just because the Dingoo has higher clock speed does not mean its more powerfull, in fact the Nintendo DS at ony 67Mhz has a very good CPU if your looking at performance per Mhz the PSP does not have 5X the raw processing power of the DS neither does the Dingoo have 6X
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: bigdavebear on October 08, 2011, 09:35:20 pm
Oh and yes the PSP has a GPU that would make Emulating games that use that near pointless on a Dingoo.

But i think the question is with 2D games, as i said the GPU may be used to scale the sprites, and back grounds and thus allow the CPU to do the Math....

But i dont think 2D games use a lot of the GPU and the PSP would be able to run those 2D games (i.e games could have been programed to not even use the GPU) the PSP has enough CPU power to run ports of games like Metal Slug series.

But we have to remember that its how the games are codded for the consoles CPU that will be the hard thing to emulate, What i mean is that for a PC to Emulate say Sega Mega Drive classics on PSP or PS3 would take a hell of a lot for even todays PC's

Yet its only a collection of SMD games, that a much much older PC with 300Mhz CPU could emulate the Roms at near Perfect.....

When these games are ported to run on console, they may look just the same as the orginal systems Rom but they require vastly more to emulate.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: pcercuei on October 08, 2011, 09:55:11 pm
But i think the question is with 2D games, as i said the GPU may be used to scale the sprites, and back grounds and thus allow the CPU to do the Math....
On 2D games, with a GPU, the sprites / backgrounds are just textures... Those 2D games are just 3D games with one dimension missing, and nothing else is different tech-wise.
Title: Re: 2d PSP
Post by: SilverhawkBR on October 09, 2011, 04:37:41 am
CPU doesn't mean everything. On the PSP, the CPU is used mostly for Hardware controlling and game engine processing (events, triggers, AIs). And audio goes by the SPU (i think PSP has one, correct me if it's wrong).

So, unlike the dingoo, the CPU of the PSP handles MANY LESS things than the dingoo one.

And the GPU takes care of the rest.

(Also, the PS2 CPU (EmotionEngine) comes with another internal unit designed to do graphics (basically handles Post FX and vectors, if i'm not wrong) besides the CPU. The XBOX did this separately.)

I might be wrong about a few things i said here, feel free to correct me in case.