Author Topic: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?  (Read 2859 times)

Deen0X

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Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2016, 08:59:36 am »
Sorry, scam is maybe a bit too offensive, but:
  • 15W soc, passive cooling?
  • 5hours of gaming? If they are not talking about minesweeper we are talking about batteries in the 100Wh range...
  • what about the stretch goals? Kodi support? Emulators!
Magical specs and dubious stretch goals are red mark not to touch this campaign with a stick for me...

And their "working prototype" according to the small print on the Kickstarter is a device that streams games from a desktop computer. Thus I don't think it is feasible for them to release a consumer product in the timeframe given.

no, i can ensure i didn't played streamed games (and i know a little bit about streaming). The device of course is able to stream devices, because running steam, you can stream from any other device with your steam account installed, but this is a steam feature really. I tested the device running games on the prototype, and they aren't streaming (in fact, straming will get better performance. The prototype donīt have the final specs and is a lowered specs device able to run some games)

battery duration is some complicated to deduce. Currently, playing Castlevania Lords of Shadow on the Win i get more than 5 hours of gaming (near to 6), but playing another game, i get under 4 hours.

i figure this device may get about the same duration than the win, but with better performance, more fps, and smooth.

SmachZ comment to me that they are thinking on s battery system for adding on the grips, and with this expand the total capacity of the device.

and about passive cooling, i think is complicated too. The prototype come with active cooling and i figure if the final device get hot, will include some sultion similar to the win (this is something that i'm figuring)

and the goal of this device is running games from your steam library on the device. is a gaming device. there is no need to goal on kodi or things that any smartphone can do. (really you will buy a gaming device like this for watching movies? well, everyone will do what want to do with this, but in my opinion, this is not the goal of this device)


Ziggurat

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2016, 12:02:40 pm »
no, i can ensure i didn't played streamed games (and i know a little bit about streaming). The device of course is able to stream devices, because running steam, you can stream from any other device with your steam account installed, but this is a steam feature really. I tested the device running games on the prototype, and they aren't streaming (in fact, straming will get better performance. The prototype donīt have the final specs and is a lowered specs device able to run some games)

battery duration is some complicated to deduce. Currently, playing Castlevania Lords of Shadow on the Win i get more than 5 hours of gaming (near to 6), but playing another game, i get under 4 hours.

i figure this device may get about the same duration than the win, but with better performance, more fps, and smooth.

SmachZ comment to me that they are thinking on s battery system for adding on the grips, and with this expand the total capacity of the device.

and about passive cooling, i think is complicated too. The prototype come with active cooling and i figure if the final device get hot, will include some sultion similar to the win (this is something that i'm figuring)

and the goal of this device is running games from your steam library on the device. is a gaming device. there is no need to goal on kodi or things that any smartphone can do. (really you will buy a gaming device like this for watching movies? well, everyone will do what want to do with this, but in my opinion, this is not the goal of this device)

First off all, I am only taking their word at face value. They say that all videos of the device and reactions of people using the device in the kickstarter video is while streaming from a desktop. They don't mention Steam in Home streaming and there is no reason to presume they are using that standard.

And about cooling, its no hokus pokus, you have 14W lets say over only 10 minutes. Thats 600 seconds. So 14W*600s = 8400 joules. Thats over 2000 calories (thats 2kcal so we are not confused with food calories).

To put into perspective, 2000 calories is enough to heat 1 gram of water 2000 degrees. Thats only from gaming for 10 minutes. Of course other components also generate heat, most notably the power supply components on the motherboard which needs cooling.

If we look at the GPD Win, it has a 2W SOC, it does indeed generate more than 2W while turbo boosting. So I hope indeed for Smach Z's part that the AMD SOC will not go many watts over nominal TDP. No matter what cooling system you have, this heat is generated, a bigger cooling solution just means its dispersed over a bigger surface.

Lets try the calculation again for 14W 1 hour. 14W*3600s = 50400Joules. Thats over 12000 calories. Which is enough to heat 100grams of water 120 degrees.

jimboton

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2016, 02:01:46 pm »
It's unlikely to work well with its high TDP + small battery + passive cooling and even if it did, the control scheme without dual sticks and the size of the device, well outside the pocketable zone, makes it useless to me.

shinkamui

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Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2016, 04:51:49 pm »
Well, thats the beauty of a free market with competition.  Whats not right for you is exactly right for me! :)  Lots of anti Win keyboard sentiment in here, but it seems a lot of the anti keyboarders bought the win anyway.  Its too early to peg something like this as useless, your priorities could change by 2017, or the design could have a change just enough to slide into your comfort zone.  We can certainly estimate a lot of things, but without final specs, this is just going to end up exactly like the gpd win speculation thread, mostly full of incorrect information.

If you want to absolutely shit on a piss poor project, the PGS is resurging again, and that is clearly of the 3 competing projects, the most likely to be an actual scam, promising likely impossible things, in an impossibly small package, with non existent components (unless someone has been able to source a link to the magical retracting 3D micro joysticks they promise)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 04:53:28 pm by shinkamui »

monstercameron

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2016, 06:31:04 pm »
Truly looking forward to the Smachz.
This qualms are the screen size is too small and the soc is overpowered.
It's too big to be pocketable and yet they are looking at 6.5" screen.


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vcoleiro1

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Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2016, 09:52:45 pm »
Maybe they will set the TDP to 12W.  The SOC allows you to define a TDP for it - it's TDP is programmable.  But this is the thing, that SOC they are using has a TDP of 12-35W.  So when you look at examples of performance for it, was that at 35W, are you then looking at that as a gauge to determine what this will be capable of.  Because if so, it won't be anywhere near that.   Nor will it ever be anywhere near that in the future as a customization if they don't add beefy active cooling to support it. But of course that then comes at a cost of battery life.

You will have to wait to see when it's released to determine it's actual performance.

I did hear someone say they should be extra batteries in the grip parts, they were considering it.  I think they should absolutely do it. Along with adding active cooling.  Not even sure why on earth they would even have a fleeting thought of going with passive cooling - as they are currently planning.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 09:57:43 pm by vcoleiro1 »

Macatron (OP)

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2016, 03:03:12 am »
Well, the way I see it, we get the best of both worlds right now. The GPD Win is already a reality (plus really cool), and the SMACH Z looks like it will be even better. We, as gamers, have the option to buy a GPD Win now, and "upgrade" to a SMACH Z whenever it finally gets released. In the mean time, though, we get to have an UMPC to game on. That's a Win win if you ask me. See what I did there? ;)

lemmywinks

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Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 09:51:02 am »
The Atom in the Win is realistically a 4w chip, fine for mobile use and with a decent battery it will game for 3-5 hours while getting warm even with active cooling as tests have shown. Before release it was already in use in passively cooled tablets and you could actually see videos and reviews of devices using it. If anybody has any experience of AMD's competing APUs over the years (I've had the 9w C50/C60 and the 8w A6-1450) they'll know that claimed TPD is always quite a bit higher, the A6 in particular was meant to be used for large tablets with active cooling however it was always was above the claimed TPD, it regularly consumed 14w+.

This is part of the problem, their prototype hardware (the actual loose board, not the controller mockup which has who-knows-what hardware inside - probably Atom) actually needs to fit into the shell, stay relatively cool and give premium performance without throttling constantly. It also needs 3+ hours battery life to be considered portable/handheld. AMD always claim they have amazing new tablet hardware but on release they are only suitable for small notebooks with battery life lower than on competing Intel platforms, they always run much hotter than claimed and ALWAYS consume much more power than AMD state. AMD's low power solutions have always been behind Intel, they aren't making these new ones with pixie dust and magic beans.

My concern is that the Smach Z team are basing the project on paper specs (and even then they're being a bit naive) when the reality is going to be much different, it makes them look less knowledgeable than a lot of forum users here who have a good idea of what the APU will be capable of in a portable format and they seem to be setting themselves up for a fall.

I liked the idea, just getting worried about where it's heading. Put simply - if you think this is going to be powerful, portable and have a good battery life then you are dreaming. Pick two of those things, you can't have all three, it's a notebook APU at the end of the day, AMD list it as a 15w-35w part:
https://www.amd.com/Documents/merlin-falcon-product-brief.pdf
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leafar

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2016, 10:03:41 pm »
i just hope they listene and do a lot test of the device and we know for sure they will install the fan cooling systen,in this case they always said if the device need it they woukd do it. i don really care if ithe device is a little bulky in the back case or at least live space for future mod.
this is not the firts time for them to work or think on this kind of device.
fingers crossed

monstercameron

Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2016, 12:23:40 am »
The Atom in the Win is realistically a 4w chip, fine for mobile use and with a decent battery it will game for 3-5 hours while getting warm even with active cooling as tests have shown. Before release it was already in use in passively cooled tablets and you could actually see videos and reviews of devices using it. If anybody has any experience of AMD's competing APUs over the years (I've had the 9w C50/C60 and the 8w A6-1450) they'll know that claimed TPD is always quite a bit higher, the A6 in particular was meant to be used for large tablets with active cooling however it was always was above the claimed TPD, it regularly consumed 14w+.

This is part of the problem, their prototype hardware (the actual loose board, not the controller mockup which has who-knows-what hardware inside - probably Atom) actually needs to fit into the shell, stay relatively cool and give premium performance without throttling constantly. It also needs 3+ hours battery life to be considered portable/handheld. AMD always claim they have amazing new tablet hardware but on release they are only suitable for small notebooks with battery life lower than on competing Intel platforms, they always run much hotter than claimed and ALWAYS consume much more power than AMD state. AMD's low power solutions have always been behind Intel, they aren't making these new ones with pixie dust and magic beans.

My concern is that the Smach Z team are basing the project on paper specs (and even then they're being a bit naive) when the reality is going to be much different, it makes them look less knowledgeable than a lot of forum users here who have a good idea of what the APU will be capable of in a portable format and they seem to be setting themselves up for a fall.

I liked the idea, just getting worried about where it's heading. Put simply - if you think this is going to be powerful, portable and have a good battery life then you are dreaming. Pick two of those things, you can't have all three, it's a notebook APU at the end of the day, AMD list it as a 15w-35w part:
https://www.amd.com/Documents/merlin-falcon-product-brief.pdf

I have to disagree, AMDs soc do use more power than intels but not a so much more.
Particularly the c50 and the a6-1450, I also have both. The c50 in my acer aspice ao522 would drink ~18W for sure but the a6-1450 uses less than 14W. The newer a6 micro-6400t  uses less than 11W playing DMC4.
#Invalid YouTube Link#
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjASoXypjYA

siegel17701

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Re: What are your thoughts on the SMACH Z?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2016, 11:34:41 pm »
Any news?

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