Dingoonity.org

Quote from: vcoleiro1 on July 17, 2016, 02:08:29 pm

I doubt the first 100K was false accounts etc.   That would need a ridiculous amount of false accounts to make a difference.

Anyway, I know people who backed it.  Even people who backed the GPD and Pyra backed it.   Don't forget, this is pretty much a dream device for most gamers.  It's not a surprise people backed it.

I would have easily backed PGS had they had a legitimate prototype or been transparent. Every update it has become more apparent that they do not know what they are doing. We will see in the next updates how serious they are about producing the device. I have no problem buying it in the future from Amazon if they are truthful about the investors but it is so very unlikely that an investor would take so much risk when they have shown in the KS they were not prepared and started their campaign with false promises, lies, and deceit. They have moved into defamation with libel against GPD and concerned backer, these aren't qualities of real professionals, how could any investor reach an agreement with these guys?

Well in about 2 weeks they will either show a prototype or vanish with the money of a couple of guys. I think they will show another proof of concept and then market it as a proof of product like total liars.

@Pardue

Don't know if you visited the Ouya forums in the past. If you did, you would know it was me that pointed out the dodgy backing on the Zrro.   Different circumstance though for the PGS.   Zrro were struggling to get their goal. Plus it was a handfull of big backing with the Zrro, not hundreds of $300 backers.

PGS may not have gotten a ton of press when the KS launched, but they did get a slow burn of press for months leading up to the KS - months back. They also did the right thing by spreading the word, by the time the KS  started, they had 90K people following them.   I even predicted before the KS went live, that it would go crazy, a ton of people wanted that thing.  It's a little bit like the Pyra got essentially no press when pre-orders started , yet they had a pent up demand from a long time of talking about it and stories about it in the past.  If you look at the Pyra forums, despite 30 pages of negitivity about the PGS and disturbing facts, people still hung onto backing the PGS.   

Plus as I said, I saw people form different forums backing the thing.   Pyrans, GPDians etc.   

So no, they didnt reach the 100K goal because of fake accounts, I don't believe that for a second.  Have they created some accounts to combat trolls on the KS page, probably.

I'm not referring to me being the identifier of the Zrro dodgy backer, merely that I was well and truely aware of them having followed them every day.

Lets face it , the PGS is a $280 Z8750 phone with 128GB SSD, 8GB ram etc etc etc, Windows and Android and phone functionality + gamepad and second screen.  Just on those specs alone it would have attracted that many backers with zero outside publicity - just on KS browsers attracted to it's top end Z8750 phone appeal , forget the gaming aspect.

Not sure why it needs a conspiracy theory to explain it. As I said , it wasn't the media they got at launch, it was what they got leeding up to launch over months.  Remember how many forums they spammed.  Plus they did get some publicity back then - ie months ago including gizmodo. 

Also, if they did set up hundreds of fake accounts to prop it up, where are they now? .  Surely they would have used them to counter the drop in backing. 

Plus there's all the people I know that backed it, plus all  the people that claimed to be early backers and then canceled once the shit hit the fan.  Some of them converted to GPD WIN backers and commented there.

Honestly, it's something I would have jumped on myself if I wasn't aware of the questionable things, like them breaking KS rules etc.  Most people would not have been aware of that.   Also, unfortunately, a number of backers, just like the the WIN , come from countries that don't speak English as their first language. So for the warnings that  didn't kick in to later, it would have been hard to read them for those backers.  For example, the second biggest backer nation behind the US (with 300 odd backers) is Japan with 227.

lso, if they did set up hundreds of fake accounts to prop it up, where are they now? .  Surely they would have used them to counter the drop in backing. 

They have hundreds of accounts, but only one guy to manage them all. Ricardo only has a limited amount of time/resources, so he's using the "BB" account and a couple others to combat the negative comments.

Also just a random comment vceloeiro1, you seem to be so concerned about "trolls" on KS, presumably because Kickstarter's etiquette is to "keep comments nice"....   What you're not mentioning is the fact that Kickstarter itself seems to be shady here and they are overlooking this entire sketchy situation, despite multiple people reporting the campaign. [And if it is true that they're not supposed to use CGI renders and they need a real prototype, why hasn't it been shut down yet? I think KS needs some accountability here too] So the reason people are "trolling" is not to be mean or difficult, it's because there is something WRONG with this whole situation. And if Kickstarter isn't going to take notice, why should we bother following their etiquette?

True. They can't even keep up the lie that Nadir locked himself in his office for three days while he was supposed to be in China.

What's the story with that? I'm not familiar with this part of the legend.

Quote from: Pardue on July 18, 2016, 10:48:31 pm

True. They can't even keep up the lie that Nadir locked himself in his office for three days while he was supposed to be in China.

What's the story with that? I'm not familiar with this part of the legend.

Nadir had a meltdown on the comments, swearing and calling people trolls and whatnot. Within minutes a new member appeared named Alec (Nadir created an Alias to keep the heat off him). A day later in a comment he stated that Nadir was in China securing manufacturing. A few days later they did their 50% SoC speed increase update where the update stated that Nadir had been locked in his office for 3 days straight when he came to his brilliant idea of putting a fan into the PGS to increase speeds and stop throttling by 50%.

Nadir in China Quote by "Alec" (Nadir):



The 50% update where they say Nadir was locked in his office for 3 days (100% Nadir himself posted this btw, he never went to China):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1606226331/portable-console-for-pc-games-pgs/posts/1627809



Then a savvy comment from a confused backer and reply from PGS Lab (Nadir who was supposedly in China and was not commenting on KS for the days previously or after *BUSTED*) saying it took time to translate his own update to English (lol ok, but you can comment in English without problem and it's your own words so who needed to translate it?!?):



Finally Nadir our hero returns from China (no he didn't he was posting as Alec, and never left home, and Sergei the engineer doesn't exist, he was just an actor in the promo video), this post is the beginning of the post where he called eveyone b**ters and f**kers i included the image but it's so good I threw the quote in for you too!:

PGS LAB Creator 2 minutes ago
Hello our dear backers!
I am here with you again. Today I returned back from China and I have something to share with you.
The first and the most important. We have signed the contract for developing and manufacturing our devices by one of the leading China\Taiwan microelectronics manufacturers. Under our thorough control, according to our requirements and with our help they will develop both versions of PGS, as well as be responsible for warranty and post-warranty services. They will also take care of manufacturing the main accessories. Later I will share more details about our partner.
Secondly. I've already told you about it, but many of you don't know. We've got an agreement with our investment fund. The agreement comes into force in case of successful Kickstarter campaign. The investing side will be obligated to cover all expenses on production line, producing starting batches of devices, warranty and also other expenses related with the business. Currently I'm negotiating about creating a mini-fund which will ensure the cash back for every backer on this Kickstarter campaign who invested the money, in case the backer changes his mind about having PGS before the official release. I'll try to provide you such opportunity.
To sum it up, the future of the PGS is in safety. The device will make a revolution in portable gaming no matter what our haters and enemies do.
Third. About our foes. In China I was monitoring the mail, private messages on KS, comments on KS, on YouTube, on Twitter, Instagram, even some forums. I've also noticed the unpleasant situation with the KS funding in recent days. Having analyzed the content, messages and comments with our colleagues I've come to a conclusion that we are being attacked by competitors, it's a massive spam attack. There are several people day after day are trying to blacken us. Not only the human resources are used, even spam auto-generating systems work. For instance, our YouTube channel is being daily attacked by about several hundreds of similar messages from bots. Do you know what's the point of all these messages? Something like "People, cancel your pledges, come with us in GPD, we are so cool, we have a better prototype" etc. I'm sorry that I may be excessive but I'm telling about my position.
So, everyone who is a part of this humiliating action, those b**ters who can't compete fairly, instead of supporting the revolution in gaming, they are trying to eliminate us as a threat. They realize that the PGS can ruin their works and to significantly reduce their sales. And we will make this great gaming future, I personally will make it possible.
Do you wants some interesting facts about that "competitors"?
They try to ignore it but I will remind. On the crowdfunding stage they didn't have ANY prototype (compared to us). And even that device which was shown after the campaign was in fact a device based on the weakest variation of the Intel Bay Trail. Even DMC4 runs with 15 FPS on it.
Those f***ers makes an emphasis that we do not have a prototype. I would tell those jerks from rivals to open their eyes wider. The prototype is presented in the bottom of our KS page, and closer to the campaign end we will try our best to present the improved version. Don't like that the case was printed on a 3D printer? Feeling uncomfortable that it is not based on a custom PCB? Those rivaling dumbs are trying to prove that this isn't a prototype at all. I would tell them to stop fooling our backers, just take a look on a definition of the prototype and then keep talking your bull*hit in some other place.
I've also noticed on the NEOGAF forum that some "unique" people appeal others to intentionally throw mud in our comments, to report on our project. Fortunately, opinions of that auditorium will not obstruct the creation of our device.
As for commenters like Erosquare. I know where you came from. I know who sent you. You will not succeed in your pitiful attempts to take away our backers. I thought that "competitors" company were better than that. I was wrong.
The next portion of text I dedicate to our backers, to those who believe in our success. And even when in doubts, they act considerately, they are able to see the potential of our product and they are truly looking forward to see the realization. Guys, thank you. You are our inspiration. It is the fact that you are here helps us going further, together we believe that the future of portable gaming devices is in such form-factor as PGS has. Perhaps, one day there will be the more stronger players on the market creating something that exceeds our works, but we believe that the idea of our product will prove this is the truly demanded type of device as well as the need for further developing the idea. Thank you for confidently ignoring the nonsense of our foes. Thanks for not responding to their provocations, they will try to eliminate us by all means.
We won't let you down!
Best regards,
Nadir

Enjoy!

edit: Bonus original Nadir meltdown I mentioned that brought Alec (who isn't on the team page btw, and doing Alan's job as community manager). Alan was already proven to be an Actor/Model named Kostas Lucky on his facebook, although he is listed as the community manager he was originally the product designer in their video LOL:

Hi, I have a question and I know I should post this into KS's comments, but I'm too lazy to create an account and put money just for one comment. I really doubt they can make it, but I didn't see this question and it's bothering me. If anyone can do me a favor and post this there I'll be really thankfull.

They said their investor will cover all costs and expenses as long as the KS campaing succedes, but the campaign itself has stretch goals. Does that mean the investor will only put money for the stretch goals reached? If that's the case, why? The stretch goals look like randomly placed, and I doubt 50K is a magic number needed for each new feature, so what is actually covered by them? It's like the investor(s) is(are) willing to put a LOT of extra money just because an arbitrary goal was reached.

Also, the 100K base looks arbitrary, why did the investor accepted that instead of, say, another arbitrary goal like 150K? And why does the 100K breakdown still mentions things like "Production", "Packaging and shipping" and "Industrial prototype"? Shouldn't that be covered by the investor too? Shouldn't PGS write an update of what they'll do with the money from KS once the investor starts putting money?

Quote from: DiegoSLTS on July 19, 2016, 03:49:28 pm

Hi, I have a question and I know I should post this into KS's comments, but I'm too lazy to create an account and put money just for one comment. I really doubt they can make it, but I didn't see this question and it's bothering me. If anyone can do me a favor and post this there I'll be really thankfull.

They said their investor will cover all costs and expenses as long as the KS campaing succedes, but the campaign itself has stretch goals. Does that mean the investor will only put money for the stretch goals reached? If that's the case, why? The stretch goals look like randomly placed, and I doubt 50K is a magic number needed for each new feature, so what is actually covered by them? It's like the investor(s) is(are) willing to put a LOT of extra money just because an arbitrary goal was reached.

Also, the 100K base looks arbitrary, why did the investor accepted that instead of, say, another arbitrary goal like 150K? And why does the 100K breakdown still mentions things like "Production", "Packaging and shipping" and "Industrial prototype"? Shouldn't that be covered by the investor too? Shouldn't PGS write an update of what they'll do with the money from KS once the investor starts putting money?

100k is not really a lot of money.
PCB design (6-10 layer board with a DDR4 interface and a many pin bga package and a lot of USB/Pci-e peripherals) and shell design is going to take up half that already. Then there is a real prototype to assemble which will not only take a couple of months it will also take another 10k. They are in well over their heads if they think 100k is going to be enough to ramp up production.

There are all these special features that are totally custom which you have to engineer which takes time and money. It would be a different story if they had people in their team that could actually do parts of the work and see this as a long term investment of their time and money. But it's just a bunch of marketing whacks with no engineering experience it seems. There is only one so called engineer a "japanese" called "Sergei" which is a Russian name and if he's not a board designer it would mean he has to learn to be proficient with a tool set first.
And second it means they would be paying a few grand on a designer package such as Altium.

They underestimated or it is an outright scam.

Thanks, I know that 100K is not enough for what they promise and read about the japanese engineer. What I want to know with my questions is how the external investor contract and the kickstarter campaign work together according to PGS. I know some people don't believe them (I'm in that group) and some other people just don't care about it, but I think they should explain that A LOT more than what they explained by now.

Nice, an actual proof of sock puppets.

I think it's pretty clear right now that this is a scam, so nothing to see here? It's not an actual device that's going to come out.

I think it's pretty clear right now that this is a scam, so nothing to see here? It's not an actual device that's going to come out.

That's what's making it so compelling to watch now. It's like a real life mystery novel or something.