Author Topic: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(  (Read 4113 times)

Offline xportz

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Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« on: January 30, 2013, 05:03:59 PM »
Got my S7300 last night.  I also have a Sony Xperia Play and Samsung Galaxy S II.  I've been messing around with emulators on all of these Android devices, and how can you guys stand them?  The input lag across every single Android emulator I try is atrocious.  The controls just aren't responsive enough to play anything well except maybe RPGs.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to it than most, but whenI press "jump" in Mario World --  there's a delay of a 1/4 of a second -- then he jumps.  I run towards the edge of a platform and press "jump" when it feels right, then I fall right off the edge with the jump command not registering in time.  I'm a hardcore platform player, and play these games constantly on real hardware, and every Android emulator/device combo I try has been a disappointment in the control delay department -- my brand new S7300 included.

Am I alone?  Am I doing something wrong?  Is this a known weakness of Android emulators?  Maybe the GCW Zero is my answer?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:19:25 PM by xportz »

Offline skelton

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 05:11:00 PM »
Got my S7300 last night.  I also have a Sony Xperia Play and Samsung Galaxy S II as.  I've been messing around with emulators on all of these Android devices, and how can you guys stand them?  The input lag across every single Android emulator I try is atrocious.  The controls just aren't responsive enough to play anything well except maybe RPGs.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to it than most, but it's like press "jump" in Mario World -- wait a 1/4 of a second -- then he jumps.  I run towards the edge of a platform and press "jump" when it feels right, then I fall right off the edge with the jump command not registering in time.  I'm a hardcore platform player, and play these games constantly on real hardware, and every Android emulator I try has been a disappointment in the control delay department -- my brand new S7300 included.

Am I alone?  Am I doing something wrong?  Is this a known weakness of Android emulators?  Maybe the GCW Zero is my answer?

Don't know in s7300, but in other models I haven't noticed input lag, only sound lag. There is some input lag for instance in s5110 when connected to HDMi mode, but not sure in s7300. You can try a thing, connect a usb gamepad and see if the lag is still there, if there isn't then its a problem of the controls of the device.

About GCW Zero, it depends on what you want to emulate. Do you want to emulate only 16 bit systems and play some indie/homebrew games? Then I suppose it is a good choice. If you want to emulate PSX, n64, CPS3 properly or play some Android games then it is not. GCW Zero and android devices are very different in concept and they are oriented to different targets in my opinion, so it depends on your tastes.
w w w. g p d. h k

Offline Deen0X

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 05:26:27 PM »
I talked about this lag with some friends, and i feel the same, but i want a update from JXD to fix something on the O.S. and test again.

after this week, if JXD donīt release any update, i will post my review with the actual O.S. status... and really i donīt like how it is working for now.

JXD can solve all of these problems. Custom Firmware only can improve somethings, but never will solve the problems of this device, if JXD donīt solve itself.

the ONLY way that cookers/sceners can solve and improve 100% the device, is with the sources, but JXD donīt want to release because, in their words, are his "engineering propietary"... but really they are in fault because his O.S. is based on google code, and this MUST be open.

anyway, if JXD donīt solve the problems with this device, i see many sceners will take away from this... and many users will avoid to get this device because his lack of support from the manufacturer.

Offline zombiesplay4eats

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 06:45:09 PM »
It may be your emulators at fault, I haven't noticed any input lag in android emulators.... a tiny bit of sound lag here and there sure..... android is famous for that, but not input lag.

You might want to check out some of the emulators in the sticky post at the top of this forum.

Offline yoshi41

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »
Am I alone?  Am I doing something wrong?  Is this a known weakness of Android emulators?  Maybe the GCW Zero is my answer?

You're not alone. There is a slight delay. If I do a side by side compare (YDPG16, S5110, S7300B, Caanoo, Pandora) and jump with Mario in SMW, the Caanoo and Pandora are a bit more responsive. I also have a lot of original hardware. Emulation is in most cases not (yet) perfect. Just tried SMW again on the SFC (60Hz), it's very responsive. My most played game is probably Castle of Illusion (SMS/GG). Since my Game Gear is refurbished, I play it on the original hardware again. Even this 8-bit game feels better, compared to any emulation handheld.

I think this only noticeable, if you are used to the original. Or people (like me) forget how the original feeling was, because they are already (too much) used to emulation.  :)
Emulator packs and fact sheets for Wiz, Caanoo, Dingoo and Pandora.

Offline xportz

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 08:11:57 PM »
I think this only noticeable, if you are used to the original. Or people (like me) forget how the original feeling was, because they are already (too much) used to emulation.  :)

Exactly.  Most people seem to not even notice, but if you're used to playing a certain game, then try it in any of the dozens of Android emulators, the slow responsiveness is very off-putting.  It can actually ruin gameplay in fast action/reaction games like platformers, shooters, etc.  For this reason, I think I'm going to have to abandon Android-based emulation all together in favor of a more dedicated solution, like the GCW Zero, or just stick to my original hardware instead.  I hope someone can solve this at some point!  Native Android games don't seem to have this problem.  I can't believe more people don't notice this issue.

Offline xportz

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 08:16:24 PM »
You might want to check out some of the emulators in the sticky post at the top of this forum.

I've tried virtually every SNES emulator, on all 3 of my Android devices (S7300, Galaxy S2, Xperia Play) and all have input lag.  If you're not noticing it, you're not tuned to it.  Compare jumping in SMW on a real SNES, then on your Android.  It's night and day. 

I can tell when lipsync is off on our TV, and my wife thinks I'm crazy.  Some people seem to be more sensitive to millisecond timing issues like bad lipsync and input lag, but it can definitely ruin the experience of trying to play certain games.

Offline KloPp

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 04:37:14 AM »
You might want to check out some of the emulators in the sticky post at the top of this forum.
I can tell when lipsync is off on our TV, and my wife thinks I'm crazy.  Some people seem to be more sensitive to millisecond timing issues like bad lipsync and input lag, but it can definitely ruin the experience of trying to play certain games.

Story of my life... lol
No matter how little it is, I will notice it instantly and it's super annoying. My friend thinks I'm crazy when I was playing MW3 on his tv. I even showed him the delay and he still calls me crazy. lol

Back to the topic.

What about Android games? Are there any delays using the physical controllers or virtual controllers?
Don't be hating on the Ouya because it's powered by Android.

Offline DutchDoctor

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
I have noticed this too, there is at least 100-150ms of input latency in the entirety of the android OS, even when using a hardware controller such as a wiimote or PS3 gamepad. I have owned both a HTC Desire and now a Galaxy 33 (LTE model w/ 2GB ram) and both have exactly the same problem.

I have ordered a HDMI adapter for my S3 and I'm going to test on a low latency (TN Panel) LCD monitor to see whether the bottleneck is the android display, or the OS itself.

I too, am very susceptible to detecting input lag. I can't stand gaming on most LCD TVs nowadays, (most are between 60 and 100ms).

Offline M-Troid

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 03:33:11 PM »
Hello

I got my S7300 last week. Itīs my first android device. Iīve been playing games since the early 80īs, and I only bought the S7300 for the emulators. Iīm also very dissapointed about the imputlag!!! Most of the emulated games run alot better on my psp!
 On a sidenote.
Why does most of the psx games I "find online" *cough,cough* donīt work? It just says the game is not supported in ePSXe. Iīve tryed atleast 3 different versions of Tekken 3. :(

Offline k0en

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 04:52:37 PM »
@M-Troid : you must use Bios File like scph1001.bin to play PSX games.

Offline M-Troid

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 06:19:34 PM »
Yes I know about the bios. I can get som games to work like sf alpha 3, but not Tekken3, ridge racer revolution etc.

Offline RodrigoCard

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 07:36:38 PM »
You said Mario World... yes, seems like a lot of Snes9x ports have input lag, I feel the same on Wii Homebrew port and also with Snes9x EX and Super GNES on Android. I think there was a psp port with the same bug too. Funny thing is, some different ports in the same system have no aparent lag.

Anyway, Try to tweak some options in Snes9x EX and Snesoid, I think I removed most of lag doing that. (Xperia Play)

Offline Squarepusher2

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 02:39:41 AM »

Am I alone?  Am I doing something wrong?  Is this a known weakness of Android emulators?  Maybe the GCW Zero is my answer?

This is almost entirely down to Android as an OS. An OS that 'locks' native code into a 'jail' and overburdens the Linux kernel by running a bloated Java VM on top is not a swell thing - especially not if you intend to use said OS for performance-critical embedded devices like phones/tablets.

I am a developer who has ported RetroArch to PS3, 360, Wii, Gamecube, Xbox 1 and now Android.

In terms of realtime performance, devices with Android perform way below the mark.

For instance, I can run Donkey Kong Country with SNES9x Next on a Gamecube. In world 2-1 I will get around 50 to 55fps. The Gamecube for the record has a 485MHz out of order PowerPC processor with around 256K of L2 cache.

Now I try the very same code on an ARM Cortex A8 single-core Android CPU clocked at 1.2GHz. Android OS is 4.0. Most of the services running in the background have all been killed (which sap performance since they invoke the garbage collector at the most inopportune of times).

What I get with the Cortex A8 in world 2-1 of DKC1 is 40 to 45fps.

So - just to compare -

Gamecube (DKC1) - 485MHz PPC processor - 50 to 55fps
Android (DKC) - ARM Cortex A8 1.2Ghz single-core processor - 40 to 45fps

This sounds shocking and it is - no way should performance be this low.

Audio input latency is shockingly bad on Android - a lot has been written about it already but basically iOS is lightyears ahead of it in this respect - even Blackberry is.

In terms of video blitting speed, things are subpar here as well. You can get a 2x speedup by ditching your stock ROM and going with a Cyanogenmod ROM. SurfaceTexture is only exposed since 4.0 and it's still very incompatible with most GPUs out there - not to mention you need dlopen hacks to even access it.

Overall, Android is not a suitable OS for realtime gaming - especially not emulators. CGW Zero chose wisely not to use it - Steambox likely isn't going with it because of its shortcomings.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 02:44:22 AM by Squarepusher2 »

Offline k0en

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Re: Input lag with EVERY Android emulator -- on my new S7300 too :(
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 09:55:25 AM »
Hi Squarepusher2 !

Thanks for your great app ! You mentioned GCW Zer0. Do you think to port RetroArch on this great device ?

 

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