Author Topic: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now  (Read 13188 times)

CampGareth

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2017, 09:39:33 am »
The implementation of the Type-C Port on the GPD WIN does not work properly with things like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LZKFOWG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What is the practical issue that you get if you try to connect the GPD WIN to your ASUS MB169C+ monitor via the type-C port with that adapter?

There are three problems, one is that the GPD Win does not support Displayport alternate mode on the USB-C port. This means that cheaper adapters like the above will not work as they rely on this mode and do not include chips to generate the video signal themselves.

The second problem is that the GPD Win can't output much current over USB-C before the voltage starts to droop causing all sorts of weird problems. This causes issues with bus-powered devices like some hubs.

The third problem is a lack of USB-PD support. When I connect my PD charger to the Win while it's on, it works but defaults to 5V 3A dumb mode, that's fine. When I connect it while the Win is off it boots up far enough to say it's charging, then something happens and the Win shuts off. It then boots again to say it's charging, shuts off again, it loops forever. It drains the battery more than it charges to do this so if left overnight you wake up to a dead device. This does not happen with chargers that are only capable of 5V 3A dumb mode, only with smarter PD chargers.

rhx

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2017, 10:00:01 am »
There are three problems, one is that the GPD Win does not support Displayport alternate mode on the USB-C port. This means that cheaper adapters like the above will not work as they rely on this mode and do not include chips to generate the video signal themselves.

The second problem is that the GPD Win can't output much current over USB-C before the voltage starts to droop causing all sorts of weird problems. This causes issues with bus-powered devices like some hubs.

The third problem is a lack of USB-PD support. When I connect my PD charger to the Win while it's on, it works but defaults to 5V 3A dumb mode, that's fine. When I connect it while the Win is off it boots up far enough to say it's charging, then something happens and the Win shuts off. It then boots again to say it's charging, shuts off again, it loops forever. It drains the battery more than it charges to do this so if left overnight you wake up to a dead device. This does not happen with chargers that are only capable of 5V 3A dumb mode, only with smarter PD chargers.

If enabled in the BIOS, I believe the WIN will do DP Alt Mode provided a powered hub is used. I remember reading a post here about someone doing it. I don't think it works with a device powered adapter due to the vdroop issues you rightly bring up.

Judging by the fact on the IGG they are saying 2.5A charger I am assuming it will be exact same as GPD WIN.

Saber

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2017, 02:14:27 pm »
After browsing the Indiegogo comments, the most sought after feature by backers is an embedded micro SD slot. A backlit keyboard also has popularity.  8)

I think it smart if GPD replaces the micro HDMI port with a micro SDXC bay. The many available USB-HDMI adapters could then serve video output if needed. Limited internal storage on a portable computer tends to fill with programs, games, music, and movies rather quickly.   

rhx

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2017, 03:11:06 pm »
After browsing the Indiegogo comments, the most sought after feature by backers is an embedded micro SD slot. A backlit keyboard also has popularity.  8)

I think it smart if GPD replaces the micro HDMI port with a micro SDXC bay. The many available USB-HDMI adapters could then serve video output if needed. Limited internal storage on a portable computer tends to fill with programs, games, music, and movies rather quickly.

Interesting idea, and one I personally would be OK with, but it would remove the ability to charge the Pocket and have video output without a 40+ spend.
Also, again, it would require proper implementation of the Type-C port which can't be guaranteed.

CampGareth

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2017, 04:45:59 pm »
There are three problems, one is that the GPD Win does not support Displayport alternate mode on the USB-C port. This means that cheaper adapters like the above will not work as they rely on this mode and do not include chips to generate the video signal themselves.

The second problem is that the GPD Win can't output much current over USB-C before the voltage starts to droop causing all sorts of weird problems. This causes issues with bus-powered devices like some hubs.

The third problem is a lack of USB-PD support. When I connect my PD charger to the Win while it's on, it works but defaults to 5V 3A dumb mode, that's fine. When I connect it while the Win is off it boots up far enough to say it's charging, then something happens and the Win shuts off. It then boots again to say it's charging, shuts off again, it loops forever. It drains the battery more than it charges to do this so if left overnight you wake up to a dead device. This does not happen with chargers that are only capable of 5V 3A dumb mode, only with smarter PD chargers.

If enabled in the BIOS, I believe the WIN will do DP Alt Mode provided a powered hub is used. I remember reading a post here about someone doing it. I don't think it works with a device powered adapter due to the vdroop issues you rightly bring up.

Judging by the fact on the IGG they are saying 2.5A charger I am assuming it will be exact same as GPD WIN.

You mind finding a link to someone actually testing DP alternate mode? I tried the site search and pointed google at the site. It came back with people talking excitedly over the BIOS options but didn't show a successful test, so as far as I'm concerned it's untested and broken. Vdroop shouldn't matter for displayport adapters since they're just... a cable, practically, no power drawn from the host.

Saber

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2017, 05:56:21 pm »
After browsing the Indiegogo comments, the most sought after feature by backers is an embedded micro SD slot. A backlit keyboard also has popularity.  8)

I think it smart if GPD replaces the micro HDMI port with a micro SDXC bay. The many available USB-HDMI adapters could then serve video output if needed. Limited internal storage on a portable computer tends to fill with programs, games, music, and movies rather quickly.

Interesting idea, and one I personally would be OK with, but it would remove the ability to charge the Pocket and have video output without a 40+ spend.
Also, again, it would require proper implementation of the Type-C port which can't be guaranteed.
There are two USB ports mind you so USB-A to HDMI adapters with or without multi-ports should work(if there's no affordable Type C to HDMI with full Type C passthrough charge capable adapters at launch that is). My suggestion means the USB-C remains unreserved too. With that hub shown on the Indiegogo's bottom page, the HDMI is blocked entirely when it's plugged in so you lose video out anyways for SD unless you plug in yet another handy dongle. :( 

At this late in development stage there's tradeoffs to consider but being that the Pocket is a portable traveling computer, internal storage is the prized scarcity. I'd rather we could have both features but that isn't a reality for the first generation and I think many see more utility in a micro SDXC storage option. I hope they can do this and people certainly want them to add this. Bumping to 256GB is another perhaps costly solution in lieu of my "simple" workaround.   
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 05:59:15 pm by Saber »

mickael28

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2017, 06:24:15 pm »
At this late in development stage there's tradeoffs to consider but being that the Pocket is a portable traveling computer, internal storage is the prized scarcity.

Thanks for pointing that out. I had not even realized about the lack of built-in microSD?, ie, I had assumed that that was the default. Not sure the rest of users, as it seems there are a lot of backers already, but I tend to use a lot of space so not having the possibility to expand it is quite a showstopper for a portable device (for some users).

We'll see if somehow they manage to squeeze one in, or replace another port like you suggest. Seems a good compromise to me as well.

rhx

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2017, 06:57:49 pm »
You mind finding a link to someone actually testing DP alternate mode? I tried the site search and pointed google at the site. It came back with people talking excitedly over the BIOS options but didn't show a successful test, so as far as I'm concerned it's untested and broken. Vdroop shouldn't matter for displayport adapters since they're just... a cable, practically, no power drawn from the host.

Here you go mate
http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-windows-devices/usb-c-port-for-perifs/msg159267/#msg159267

IBJamon

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2017, 09:46:02 pm »
A lack of microsdxc slot is a total showstopper for me.  I would consider it if it was internal or something since it's rarely replaced (it would act like a second 200GB HDD at that point) but with nothing it's a total showstopper, unless the internal EMMC is somehow replaceable with a larger drive.

USB to HDMI devices exist, though I suspect they won't work too well on an Atom processor.  And the displaylink USB 3.0 devices don't work at all on Linux.

vcoleiro1

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2017, 10:13:39 pm »
As I suggested previously, all they need to do is add a uSD slot on a daughter board and have it somewhere were it fits.  Probably the other side, back or front of the GPD Pocket.   





CampGareth

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2017, 10:59:16 pm »
You mind finding a link to someone actually testing DP alternate mode? I tried the site search and pointed google at the site. It came back with people talking excitedly over the BIOS options but didn't show a successful test, so as far as I'm concerned it's untested and broken. Vdroop shouldn't matter for displayport adapters since they're just... a cable, practically, no power drawn from the host.

Here you go mate
http://boards.dingoonity.org/gpd-windows-devices/usb-c-port-for-perifs/msg159267/#msg159267

Hot damn, thanks! Shame most of my kit's Thunderbolt 3 but if I find a way to use this I will

Saber

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2017, 12:21:21 am »
As I suggested previously, all they need to do is add a uSD slot on a daughter board and have it somewhere were it fits.  Probably the other side, back or front of the GPD Pocket.   


https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/3/0/6/00544-02.jpg

https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/3/0/6/00544-04.jpg
Front or back probably a no go but as you said the other side maybe near the front partition. That battery is quite a monster. However, being receptive to such a change, any change, is another hurdle, as it's positively claustrophobic inside the case:

https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1484737248/lelrexmjhu9oazwfghrn.jpg

If all else, the panacea to our woes:
https://usb.brando.com/usb-card-reader_c0031d015
Similarly, SDXC version GH-CRMR-MMW found here:
http://blog.tworks.jp/archives/313

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 12:51:29 am by Saber »

vcoleiro1

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2017, 08:15:05 am »
I vaguely think I saw GPD say this, but it does appear from the photo below that it may be true.  That is that the GPD Pocket, unlike the GPD WIN, has a auto controlled fan rather than manual switch to control the fan.  The fan inlet is also on the side/back  rather than the bottom.

Check the photo below:


opke

Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2017, 10:25:53 am »
I asked some questions here but it seems most of my doubts have been cleared up with replies to comments on Indiegogo posted afterwards.

- Recovery images and drivers will be available on the internet. Ubuntu drivers will work on other distros. However, they will be distributed as binaries -- really bad news for me! I hope it will be reconsidered.

- Indiegogo batch of GPD Pocket will also receive the certification required by Japanese law.

Now I have no reason to hesitate backing.

Keep up the great work, GPD!

Faust

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Re: The indiegogo campaign for GPD Pocket is started now
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2017, 11:22:48 am »
I asked some questions here but it seems most of my doubts have been cleared up with replies to comments on Indiegogo posted afterwards.

- Recovery images and drivers will be available on the internet. Ubuntu drivers will work on other distros. However, they will be distributed as binaries -- really bad news for me! I hope it will be reconsidered.

- Indiegogo batch of GPD Pocket will also receive the certification required by Japanese law.

Now I have no reason to hesitate backing.

Keep up the great work, GPD!
Pal, the after sale service is awful, you should consider twice before backing, and you better buy from a reseller with a good after sale service.

 

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