Author Topic: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything  (Read 66432 times)

Phawx (OP)

GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« on: November 19, 2016, 08:29:46 pm »
This post is to get early feedback to GPD to potentially develop a GPDwin 2 (If a GPDWin 2 is even going to be a thing)

Please post any feedback that you have.  For people who have a GPDwin, we can all see what things are not quite right with the GPDwin itself.  Unfortunately, if GPD had listened to early feedback, we might actually have had a better device now so ideally I'd like to get feedback to GPD *now* so they have an idea of what would be a good way forward for the next iteration.





  • AMD Raven Ridge.  Dual Core (High Frequency/ High IPC) Good GPU, maybe HBM2.  Anticipate 14-20watt TDP.
  • 720p 7" LCD (maybe OLED if LG could produce) but most important is to get a display that supports Adaptive Sync (FreeSync) over eDP.  Also aim for 120Hz.  It would be ideal if the FreeSync range was 30-120Hz.
  • Make the battery larger overall but thinner.  Looking at some batteries 8cm x 13cm x 12mm are 20,000 mAh
  • Put the battery behind the LCD.  Yes it would mean the hinge needs to be better to support the weight, but we need a large active heatsink to properly support that TDP
  • The Entire bottom of the device should be devoted to an Active Heatsink + Fan.
  • Make an M.2 slot available for people that want to expand storage and also have storage that can be booted from.
  • M.2 Slot should be NVMe capable.
  • Naturally this time have L3 and R3 as working buttons under the analog sticks.  Considering that it can be modded onto the GPDwin, there is no reason this can't be done from the beginning.
  • I'd say remove the D-Input/Mouse Mode/X-input switch.  Instead always have X-input.  There are enough software solutions to remap keys however you want.
  • Fix Polling Rate.  GPDwin is set at 20hz.  This needs to be much much higher.
  • Potentially have a small touchpad so there is a always a working keyboard/mouse.
  • Make the device slightly larger.  Instead of 15.5 cm wide, go to 17cm.
  • Center the keyboard and make the individual keys slightly larger.
  • D-Pad and Face buttons to use the same clicky keys as the keyboard.
  • Pull AIR from the front of the unit and exhaust through the back of the unit.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 09:05:12 pm by Phawx »

scatsy

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 08:45:36 pm »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

Phawx (OP)

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 08:49:06 pm »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

There have been enough old PC games that I've played on my GPDwin that if a physical keyboard wasn't available, I wouldn't have been able to play them. 

scatsy

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 08:51:47 pm »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

There have been enough old PC games that I've played on my GPDwin that if a physical keyboard wasn't available, I wouldn't have been able to play them.

Hmmm, what if the keyboard was replaced by a touch screen?

Pintek

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2016, 09:47:00 pm »
Call me crazy but... 5.5" screen is still perfectly fine for me and at 720p resolution. Maybe a amd soc so we have a much more powerful intergrated graphics compared to the intel option. Maybe a blower style cooling fan and better alum heatsink.

Overall I like the way it all looks would like some clicky L3/R3 but having the buttons just between the face buttons and joysticks would be better then the current setup and start select in a traditional location between the joysticks.

center the keyboard and split the group with the power an other keys to either side of the keyboard.

Trying to keep the device to the same dimensions as much as possible.

A crazier thought would be to also somehow... get analog shoulder buttons similar to the ps3 and xbox controller but I don't think its possible to get decent travel while keeping the form factor.

Also if we are using a amd soc... can HBM be used to least get a gig of intergrated memory?


If there was gonna be a 100% rebuild of something.. I'm reeeealy partial to the old sony vgn-ux umpc hand held loved that slide up screen with keyboard

vcoleiro1

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 10:04:12 pm »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

At the beginning of the project , most people were for the keyboard, some were against it.  There was a lot of discussion about it.

One thing I can say for certain now that we have the WIN and have used t is this - It absolutely needs the keyboard.   
That said, GPD should improve it as the community had suggested in the beginning of the project.   Get rid of the two right column of keys.  Expand the keyboard into that area, and centre it. 

As for the 7" screen, that would be to big to fit in a device that could still be pocketable.  You would be moving into a mini laptop/netbook arena. 

As for changes I would do - in no particular order

1)  Stereo speakers

2) Clickable sticks

3) More storage

4) Swappable battery

5) Change the uSD slot to SD .  They are cheaper and have much more capacity for cheaper.

6) Get rid of the two right column of keys.  Expand the keyboard into that area, and centre it.

7) LED to indicate when the caps is on

8.) Fan inlet needs to be moved to the front, with a cowl to it.  Currently when you put the WIN down , it blocks the fan inlet, not to mention can suck up any drop of water you may have put it on.  Also, air from the fan needs to be channeled past the SOC and out the vent on the other side of the front or out back if possible. (Perhaps a blower fan might be better for the job)

9) Get rid of the fan switch, replace with an automatic fan control with definable fan profiles.  Including a quick soft control for manual control.

10) Bigger battery if it fits

11)  Maybe a screen bump to 6" if it can be done without increasing the size of the unit.

12)  Customizable mouse mode

13) Metal case(like we saw at one point) - maybe this could in a premium model

« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 10:36:15 pm by vcoleiro1 »

zdanee

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2016, 10:07:52 pm »
I'm more or less content with this setup. My wishlist: Stereo speakers on the two sides of the screen. Also a tiny webcam (1.3MP).
Centered keyboard with slightly larger keys, L3, R3 buttons on the nubs, power and volume keys tucked away on the side, xbox/select/start centered in the empty space in the middle and getting rid of the right 10 group of keys. While the AMD APU would be faster, the 15W TDP is 3 times more than what we have now, way too much for a handheld, first let's see what the Smatch Z can do with all the heat, because I think that'll be the most bothersome issue with that device. Instead a Core M3 7y30, which has the same 4.5W TDP as our Atom, but twice as fast. But most important: don't rush, solve the charging issues, the random reboots and the GPU errors, and release only when it's 100% ready.
Cube i7 Stylus + GPD Win

Oshin

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2016, 10:24:18 pm »
I'm curious about the AMD SOC's, have they really been put to the test in any device yet ? I think Intel Atom since bay trail is perfect power and size wise at least for a WIN type device, temperature wise they seem OK, but they do get pretty hot I guess. I just know AMD on the other hand typically run hotter and more power hungry. At the same time Cherry trail looks like a disappointment in reliability terms, there have been so many failures its clear Intel didn't expect anybody to run these chips hard.

From my own experience with the WIN, I would definitely centre the keyboard, right now it feels like you could touch type but its just too hard with the placement. Its never going to be perfect on a 5" device but it could be a bit more usable.

I think a proper heatsink design and fan would go a long way to make a win type device more comfortable to use. As well as the intake at the front and exhaust at the back I would propose insulating the base of the device, reality is its going to get hot, but at least then it wont singe you hands, of course your cooler needs to better to compensate for this but I think its doable.

Also I'm in favour of GPD's switch, mouse mode is a boon for me simply because I am far to lazy to reconfigure xpadder for RTS, FPS's, RPG's etc. Just using mouse mode gives you a functional way to play a game, maybe not ideal, but for a lazy guy who likes shortcuts it suits me perfectly. The only thing I would change is mapping left and right on the left analogue stick. I think the DPAD and buttons could be a bit nicer alright.

I'm trying to think of anything else the WIN is missing, but to be honest GPD did a really good job on this device, apart from the bad luck with the 8700s being dodgy in so many units and the poorly executed crowdfunding campaigns.

brushpicks11

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2016, 10:34:44 pm »
The only thing I need improved on my Win (since i freakin love it!)


1. Clickable sticks = please GPD please this is possible and would be incredible)

2. Better CPU = because why not

3. Better heat dissipation  = my games aren't throttling too bad (dolphin does with certain games) but the device is hot as all hell, maybe there's something I need to do on my end to get my Win to have better battery.

4. Center the keyboard


That's all I can see improving the Win, I love the device nearly perfect, honestly the coolest thing I've ever owned. Besides the PSP of course

mr.white

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2016, 10:35:15 pm »
My wishlist:

- stereo speakers (mono sounds weak an and the current position of it is really bad, my right hand is always cover it)
- longer battery life
- more horsepower
- move L3 and R3 up to the sticks or use clickable sticks
- the L1/L2 and R1/R2 distance is anoying (make them like on the XD)
- let the paint try before shipping them out, my hands are black all over :-)

SONY

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2016, 10:38:14 pm »
After GPD Win 1...GPD shouldn't be trusted anymore.
Kendy, she's bad!!!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 10:42:56 pm by SONY »
SONY PS3
SONY PS4 Slim
SONY PS4 Pro

GPD XD

shinkamui

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 01:31:00 am »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

There have been enough old PC games that I've played on my GPDwin that if a physical keyboard wasn't available, I wouldn't have been able to play them.

Agreed, enough now myself that the hardcoded mapping they provided is abysmal.  If not for the full keyboard, most of the titles would have been virtually unplayable. 

shinkamui

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Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 01:32:03 am »
In my opinion they should remove the keyboard, or at least much of it, leave the keys just like CRTL, ALT, function keys and things like that. To have a better disposition of the controls.

I would also add an extra USB and a trackpad

There have been enough old PC games that I've played on my GPDwin that if a physical keyboard wasn't available, I wouldn't have been able to play them.

Hmmm, what if the keyboard was replaced by a touch screen?

Well, you're already going to have an opportunity to see how well or poorly that works with the PGS pro, IF its not actually the smoking, steaming hot piece of scam it looks like.

shinkamui

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  • Posts: 395
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 01:42:15 am »
I also hate to be that guy but, generally within 2 generations battery life and more processing power are at odds with each other, especially when demanding the same form factor/size.   @Phawx, thats a crazy wishlist, you've priced the device out of this market!  Don't you remember how angry people were when they heard it was 300$, and that that was too expensive!  :)  I'd buy that design, though it looks like it would be pretty bulky.  And to date, a near bezel free display like that isn't going to come from a small niche chinese manufacturer, gonna have to drop those screen requirements down a notch. 

Side note, after playing Divinity on the win for about 40 minutes and almost hitting 80C, I'm f'in glad they didn't go with the aluminum body.  The unit got so hot it was pretty uncomfortable to use, prompting me to stop.  That metal heat transfer would probably result in the processor temps on the surface scoring your palms. :)

Phawx (OP)

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2016, 03:56:59 am »
@shinkamui

Yea it would be expensive.  Well more expensive than the GPDwin.  It's more dependent on how much AMD would charge for a dual-core Raven Ridge.  The price would also go up again if we could use HBM2 for the entire system, but having HBM2 as shared system/vram would be amazing.

Getting a cheap (Read: smartphone stock panel) LCD that supports FreeSync would be the hard part, I'm pretty sure they don't really make them.  And if something had to be made, and since we are in dream-world where none of this is actually going to happen, I'd like a 720p OLED FreeSync (30-120hz) panel.  Naturally that won't happen, but at the very least I'd like to try to get some type of LCD that can support adaptive sync.

It's also worth pointing out that the GPDwin as it is right now could fully house a 6" LCD and still have a tiny bezel.  A 7" LCD would indeed be larger but I don't pocket my GPDwin as it is now.  Well it is pocketable in a jacket pocket, but in my jeans, it's a back pocket only thing.  So pumping it up slightly to 7" would make it larger but definitely not anywhere near a laptop size.  There are 7" baytrail tablets that are still "pocketable" in the same sense as the GPDwin now.

Additionally, the reason I suggest going to 7" is so that the battery could be thinner so that the top part of the clamshell wouldn't be too large.

For anyone that *uses* the GPDwin, it's very obvious there are two problems that need to get solved.

#1.) The battery on the bottom of the case adds to the heat of the plastic shell.  It's extremely noticeable when charging the device and not even playing any games that the GPDwin is physically very warm to the touch.

So if we move the battery *behind* the LCD, we move a major heat source away from the mainboard and also away from the place that is constantly held by the user.

#2.) By moving the battery to the LCD, that means you can free up the entire bottom portion of the device to the Heatsink+fan.  Additionally, like I show in the crappy 3d model I made the front of the device can be where air is pulled in.  So even if you were to lay the device flat on a surface, it would still properly breathe.

I'm not suggesting to make the device too large.  But at 7" screen *provided that the border of the screen could be extremely minimal* the device would be 10%~ larger

720p 7" screen would still be very nice to play on.  And if we had 20,000 mAh battery with a 14w AMD Zen part, then we'd be golden.

Also if AMD Raven Ridge doesn't work out, we could go with this:

http://ark.intel.com/products/95451

14w i7-7500U.

At least with the CPU on this, lots of heavier emulators will finally be fully playable.

 

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