Author Topic: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything  (Read 54121 times)

Saber

  • *
  • Posts: 343
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #180 on: March 21, 2017, 12:44:12 am »
I'd say we're looking at a third quarter 2018 release for the Win 2. Indiegogo about February 2018.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:46:47 am by Saber »

mr.white

  • *
  • Posts: 168
GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #181 on: March 21, 2017, 12:45:39 am »
I'm pretty sure they will make a GPD Win 2 before they come out with an XD2, after all this success with the Windows 10 based machines. To be honest, it took a while for me before I got used to the Windows based emulators or PC games but now I don't touch my XD anymore, because there is so much more you can do with a GPD Win.

vcoleiro1

  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #182 on: March 21, 2017, 12:56:43 am »
GPD XD sold pretty well from what Ive heard.  And not only is the XD2 continually requested here.  It's even more so on GPDs Chinese forum.   
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 04:41:10 am by vcoleiro1 »

exorio

  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #183 on: March 21, 2017, 03:42:04 am »
Yes so many tablets are fanless and have thermal throttling to prevent to become fucking hot, and to keep an average battery life. Those many tablets aren't made as gaming consoles.

Even the big company like Microsoft or Nvidia didn't find a way to get the best performances without throttling or fan, it's not a rumor, it's a fact.

Some people out there are probably using the Win daily without the fan switched on.

And most likely lots of people are using the fanless tablet for gaming as well.

Those are not facts, it's a guess. But I would bet on those two guesses.

I strongly disagree with some of the points you made
First of all, mouse mode on GPS Win is absolutely a lifesaver.
With it and keyboard, I replaced my 13" laptop with the Win and now use it not only for play but also for work
I can process the data from the experiments while on the Tube.

Lol, try use a much more mouse intensive softwares with it (i.e. design softwares) and see how far you go with the mouse mode.

It's way much better to use a capacitive stylus for accuracy, even the cheaper ones work, like adonit jot.

For games, try to survive a minute on CS:GO or COD multiplayer using mouse mode.

Quote
About the fan, it is true that the original design was fanless. The original design also suffered from serious overheating, that is why the fan was added.

Hence : design flaw.

Quote
Not that the original Win would have benefitted from a lack of fan.

With that space the fan occupied currently, they can add so much more. Like, for one, battery size and capacity.

Quote
But this topic anyway is about discussing things to add to a hypothetical and more powerful GPD Win 2 rather than about crippling the currently existing device.

A more powerful processor doesn't always necessarily help the device. And oftentimes, adding stuffs that wasn't really essential or necessary backfires, crippling the overall experience.

Like the switches, GPD team definitely confused on which niche they should target and decided on the last minute to target all the market by slapping everything on it. This is what I call "crippling".

Quote
And USB-C.. I think we should opt for more companies adopting technologies of the near future rather than desperately trying to cling to the past :)

In that case they should remove the keyboard and use brain signals directly for input. You can type and play video games hands-free. Because using keyboard is a thing of the past. And the technology is already available.

In all seriousness though. I'm all for apple's philosophy, adding only necessary stuffs with very careful thought process before implementing any new technology.

All other companies implemented bleeding edge technologies, and they went nowhere. Apple waited until the technology becomes more mature and polished before even implementing anything new.

People probably mocking apple because of the outdated, underspec hardwares and such, but they really care about the design in the first place, that's why some bleeding edge Androids with higher spec didn't catch up to Apple's hardware.

How many phone companies followed Apple's design choices? Unremovable battery, all capacitive screen, and one example from apple recently : fingerprint sensor. The technology isn't new, but Apple implementing it RIGHT and in the right time. And guess what, other phones followed the step.

What I'm saying is, adding more stuffs in it or having the latest and greatest technology doesn't always mean bettering the device. They need to have more thorough thought and design process to make a better hardware.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 03:46:24 am by exorio »

skelton

  • *****
  • Posts: 6173
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #184 on: March 21, 2017, 09:24:57 am »
The fan is a must if you don't want device to throttle like hell. Even chinese tablets with z8350 throttle, or the surface with z8700. If you want to run at Max speed all the time a fan is needed for gaming. Even the shield portable with a tegra arm has a fan...
I doubt they can find a good thermal solución only with dissipation and passive cooling. anyhow, anyone is free to give gpd their Magic thermal solution for the win 2.
Retired

exorio

  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #185 on: March 21, 2017, 10:29:18 am »
The fan is a must if you don't want device to throttle like hell. Even chinese tablets with z8350 throttle, or the surface with z8700. If you want to run at Max speed all the time a fan is needed for gaming. Even the shield portable with a tegra arm has a fan...
I doubt they can find a good thermal solución only with dissipation and passive cooling. anyhow, anyone is free to give gpd their Magic thermal solution for the win 2.

Some users should have realistic expectation out of this device, really looking into the specifications, not pushing this device exceeding its limits like playing GTA V on this actually feasible or even near anywhere recommended.

That's why throttling becomes a problem since the device worked way too hard, way far harder then it's intended to do.

How comfortable is it playing GTA V on this such small screen and 2-3 hours battery life from the ultra heavy load anyway?

It is fun to see how far this device can go, but eventually you'll just want a device that works out of the box.

Yeah you can jailbreak an iphone or root an android and push the hardware to the limits, but really that's not how the device was intended to be use.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 10:33:33 am by exorio »

skelton

  • *****
  • Posts: 6173
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #186 on: March 21, 2017, 11:01:57 am »
I don't play GTA V on my GPD WIN. But device would throttle even using a DC emulator or dolphin. even with some indie games. I say because I had a z8700 that throttled a lot with almost everything, until I put a fan on it and problem solved.

For example, I can play UMvscapcom 3 fullspeed or Ultra Street Fighter Iv, and that would be impossible with throttling.
Anyhow, if you prefer a lower performance device it's up to you, or just propose to GPD a good thermal solution without a fan,
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:04:38 am by skelton »
Retired

Saber

  • *
  • Posts: 343
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #187 on: March 21, 2017, 11:26:42 am »
In all seriousness though. I'm all for apple's philosophy, adding only necessary stuffs with very careful thought process before implementing any new technology.
Just wanted to interject that the Apple philosophy is hold back current tech in their machines, and then look beyond trendy by somehow bringing the masses "the future". While this isn't inherently deceptive, it does work to their advantage to keep buzz momentum pulsing for their products.

exorio

  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #188 on: March 21, 2017, 11:57:39 am »
Just wanted to interject that the Apple philosophy is hold back current tech in their machines, and then look beyond trendy by somehow bringing the masses "the future". While this isn't inherently deceptive, it does work to their advantage to keep buzz momentum pulsing for their products.

I somewhat agree. And by "hold back current tech" is what I mean by waiting until the tech become much more mature and intuitive.

Touchscreen technology was already available at early 70's (CMIIW)

Only when Apple brought the capacitive and design the smartphone industry went boomed, and netbook wave went dead soon after Apple brought "tablets".

I remember back then there're tons of Windows 7 tablets that behaves like Ipad already. But none of those survived beyond being a "novelty" item.

Fingerprint ID? My 2006 netbook already have it.

But streamlining all those technologies, brewing them into one solid unity and making the overall device very pleasant to use is what Apple do best.

I hate apple for their strictness, but I do admit the iphone was a very pleasant device to use.

I only switched to Android since it's far cheaper, and have no other choice after I broke the screen and the repair fee is the same as a mid-range Android device.

I literally loled seeing Samsung bragging about air gesture and curved screen. Nobody use those.

How about the flexible screen? Sure it looks neat but it seems that they're clueless on what to do with it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAAie_Zf1pU

Ooo flexible screen, it's very useful for flirting ;D

Anyway, let's just back to the topic.

I'm not saying anyone here attempted to run GTA V on GPD Win, but there're people who do :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7kQuB5GAA

That is why developers having headaches receiving complains their games don't work while it was played on a device waaay far below than the recommended spec.

And probably hardware vendors having headaches receiving complains that their hardwares don't work, because it's forced to do beyond what it's capable of.

For the heat, aluminum/metal base probably one option, like they did earlier, but with a non heat conductive material on the grip where the palm would reside.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:07:12 pm by exorio »

Neuromant1991

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #189 on: March 21, 2017, 12:17:33 pm »
@exorio
I feel like we are not understanding each other.  I am telling you that I use the mouse mode for my work and for using Windows in general and you are giving me the most ridiculous examples of applications in which GPD''s mouse implementation sucks the most. Of course graphic designers will not use the mouse mode. To be fair, I would be rather surprised if they try using GPD Win for graphics work in the first place considering it's tiny size and resolution. But guess what? Graphic designers are also unlikely to use a more normal laptop''s touch pad for their work. The fact that on a Win we can use a mouse mode with one of the sticks as a controller and a switch is a show of the company''s resourcefulness, not crippling a device. If you hate it, you really don't have to use it, the whole point of having a switch is to use the mode that is most useful to you in a given situation, but why would you possibly say that it cripples the usage of the Win?
And what kind of a person would even consider using the mouse mode for CS:GO? This is the most stupid idea. There is a switch, switch to the X-input, use that. Leave the mouse mode for use with Windows and MS-Office. It''s like talking about using a hammer to put in a screw. Obviously if you talk about a hammer''s usefulness in putting screws into things, it will sound useless. You should use right tools for the job.

"Some people out there are probably using the Win daily without the fan switched on"
Some people out there wear thermally insulated gloves when using their electronics. Not many, probably, but there are bound to be some. My point is that the argument is that "there are some people" is a bad argument. We have 7 billion people here. There are some people for a whole variety of crazy second parts of that sentence.
Moreover, why do you have such a hatred of fans in the first place?
"With that space the fan occupied currently, they can add so much more. Like, for one, battery size and capacity." - firstly, battery size and capacity here are the same thing unless you are trying to say that removing the fan would not only free up physical space within the device but also would allow a higher amount of  energy to be stored per gram of battery. Secondly, removing a fan would cripple the device, making it nearly useless as it will overheat on any 3D game.
About USB-C - personally I like it more because you can plug it in either way.
By the way, unremovable battery is one of those things that must be "fixed" on one of the first time machine trips. Super annoying.

And finally, about the later posts about throttling:
I don't play GTA V on GPD Win. However, I have many games that run rather well on GPD when it is going at the higher clock speed and which are borderline or completely unplayable when it throttles.
If you were to remove the fan, you would have to compensate for it with huge re-engineering of the entire device and, in such a small package, you would likely have to put multiple heat dissipators (those heatsinks with rectangular spikes) on the outer surface of the device so that the heat is dissipated with the ambient flow of air. Needless to say, the infrastructure inside to accommodate that may occupy a greater volume than the fan does while the heat dissipators connected to the inner heatpipes would always catch on things and burn things.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:15:08 pm by Neuromant1991 »

exorio

  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #190 on: March 21, 2017, 01:14:54 pm »
@exorio
I feel like we are not understanding each other.  I am telling you that I use the mouse mode for my work and for using Windows in general and you are giving me the most ridiculous examples of applications in which GPD''s mouse implementation sucks the most. Of course graphic designers will not use the mouse mode. To be fair, I would be rather surprised if they try using GPD Win for graphics work in the first place considering it's tiny size and resolution.

Well, that's why it got HDMI port, bro, you can actually plug it to bigger screen if needed and take your works on the go.

You don't work all out on the go anyway.

But you probably take notes and scribbles or doodles, and then you can finish up at home/office with larger monitor, proper keyboard and mouse.

I don't think anyone would even do all-out spreadsheet works strictly just on this device either.

Quote
If you hate it, you really don't have to use it, the whole point of having a switch is to use the mode that is most useful to you in a given situation, but why would you possibly say that it cripples the usage of the Win?

Since it already got a touchscreen? ::)

Quote
And what kind of a person would even consider using the mouse mode for CS:GO? This is the most stupid idea. There is a switch, switch to the X-input, use that.

Obviously the mouse mode was intended to use for FPS games that don't support xinput. Hence, the dpad changes into wasd keys when you switch it to mouse mode.

COD4 don't support xinput obviously.

Most PC FPS aren't meant to be played with a gamepad.

In the end x-input or not, try to survive VS people playing the game with m/kb.

Quote
Leave the mouse mode for use with Windows and MS-Office. It''s like talking about using a hammer to put in a screw. Obviously if you talk about a hammer''s usefulness in putting screws into things, it will sound useless. You should use right tools for the job.

The better analogy is this device attempted to bring 3 kinds of hammer, one is red, one is black and the other one is yellow. They all serve the same purpose : to put the nails in.

Yeah probably some people like the red color and the other guy liked the black ones. The yellow one, altough it's obsolete you bring it to put in the nails too. When you want to put the nails in, you got confused on which one you should use, although either any of the 3 hammers would suffice. And in this analogy I'm talking about the average joes. Not tech enthusiast.

What I'm saying is, the device have touchscreen for more serious works. I did doodles on the win using artrage if you're curious and obviously a stylus on the touchscreen, or even finger works better than the mousemode.

I'm using spreadsheets on the go with the stylus, definitely a better solution than the mousemode for serious works. But as been said earlier, I'm not intending to use it as a full blown writing or spreadsheet machine either.

Quote
"Some people out there are probably using the Win daily without the fan switched on"
Some people out there wear thermally insulated gloves when using their electronics. Not many, probably, but there are bound to be some. My point is that the argument is that "there are some people" is a bad argument. We have 7 billion people here. There are some people for a whole variety of crazy second parts of that sentence.

The most vocal type of people in forums like this are enthusiasts.

Not the kind of people you would meet everyday. There seems to be a lot of us here, but have you even notice how many numbers of people participating in this forum? Probably couple of hundreds.

Streamlining the device for wider, mainstream audience definitely will help on the development side. And confusing them with all the switches and redundant options (i.e. confusing them) is not a good solution.

Quote
Moreover, why do you have such a hatred of fans in the first place?

Lol, as I said earlier... it's a suggestion.

I don't hate the fan, it's just that currently it's more of an afterthought, "duct-tape" solution from the GPD team. THAT'S what I hate. Not the fan itself.

It wasn't carefully designed, or thoroughly tested and getting more options from the case itself.

I'm starting to wonder why you seem take it so personally.

Quote
"With that space the fan occupied currently, they can add so much more. Like, for one, battery size and capacity." - firstly, battery size and capacity here are the same thing unless you are trying to say that removing the fan would not only free up physical space within the device but also would allow a higher amount of  energy to be stored per gram of battery.

Exactly.

Quote
Secondly, removing a fan would cripple the device, making it nearly useless as it will overheat on any 3D game.

So why are people still buying those fanless tablets btw?

I for one, opted for GPD Win only because I liked the built in keyboard + gamepad.

Before this device came out I stalked OpenPandora for quite awhile, but then GPD came up with better solution, with better OS. It's not perfect, hence the suggestions, but currently it's good.

Quote
About USB-C - personally I like it more because you can plug it in either way.

As I said, USB C is perhaps the future. But currently it isn't and there're tons of redundant USB C features. For example, who use the display feature in the USB C port? I know a guy who did an experiment outputting the display from the USB C port, but I wouldn't bet that'll be his everyday solution to have external monitor output.

Quote
If you were to remove the fan, you would have to compensate for it with huge re-engineering of the entire device

EXACTLY. I won't mind similar spec, but with better design and careful engineering.

They collected about 2 millions (1000% from 200k goal) for the GPD pocket, I guess it's safe to say that their campaign has been successful, they have more funds to get better designs and engineering, and more time to carefully design and engineer the unit. They're not constrained by delivery deadlines anymore, at least for GPD Win 2.

THAT'S what I'm trying to say.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:17:07 pm by exorio »

Maniac

Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #191 on: March 21, 2017, 05:34:25 pm »
Since it already got a touchscreen? ::)
I use mouse mode to operate my device, I try to avoid using the touchscreen. It's awkward and I hate fingerprints.

So why are people still buying those fanless tablets btw?
Because they aren't using them for gaming :)

As I said, USB C is perhaps the future. But currently it isn't and there're tons of redundant USB C features. For example, who use the display feature in the USB C port? I know a guy who did an experiment outputting the display from the USB C port, but I wouldn't bet that'll be his everyday solution to have external monitor output.

Maybe you're not realizing that microusb is only usb 2.0? That alone is a good reason to use USB C.
Technically there's a usb 3.0 version of MicroUSB, but do you really want this port on the Win?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#/media/File:USB_Micro-B_USB_2.0_vs_USB_Micro-B_SuperSpeed_(USB_3.0).jpg

baka-neko

  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #192 on: March 21, 2017, 05:38:38 pm »
I made two videos showing off Kaby Lake 7Y30 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuNAF-VMVac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXakVUkMp28

I show the amount of power the chipset is using.  If a *proper* active heatsink was developed for the GPDwin2, I'd pay $600 with this chipset.

Going to make some more videos showing off this tablet.  If you'd like to see certain games running, let me know.

Also you can go into BIOS to set at 4.5 watts.  Right now it maxes out at 7 watts.

Thanks for the videos!

About the lower stability when using 2 cores, it might be due to thread affinity. Might be fixed if you disabled hyper threading.

Can you please try PCSX2? If you have Wild Arms 3 (US), I would love to see how it performs (set the configuration to "aggressive") as I've tried it on my Win and I can compare. Please record the real-time intro when starting a new game.

Saber

  • *
  • Posts: 343
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #193 on: March 21, 2017, 06:17:15 pm »
My two cents is GPD should go with 6Y30 initially if they can't price less than $499 with 7Y30 and 128GB. I think people will still be pleasantly surprised with the lower performer CPU.

Added shortcuts for display brightness, which I tend to manually adjust often:
http://i.imgur.com/ZGyOv5p.jpg
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 10:35:36 pm by Saber »

skelton

  • *****
  • Posts: 6173
Re: GPD Win 2 features and suggestions to improve everything
« Reply #194 on: March 21, 2017, 06:50:37 pm »
I personally if they release a device that cost 500 bucks is a no go for me, no matter the specs it has. I never spend so much in a handheld, and never will. (the same I would never buy a phone for 600 bucks or a tablet) I suppose people can afford it, but in my country salaries are not great as to buy many gadgets, mainly so expensive. If people can afford it, then good for them, but it would come an elitist product in my opinion.
Retired